Does Wichita State Have a Top 25 Athletic Program?

[Shocker-maniac]

I found an article that ranks athletic programs in 5 sports (football, men's and women's basketball, baseball and softball) in terms of wins and losses for the past year. There was an error in the article because it states that Wichita State does not play softball instead of football. But the point was that if they were to allow a school like Wichita State, which doesn’t play football, the Shockers (.685) would be No. 25.

Now there are many more metrics to an athletic program than wins and losses, such as attendance, budget, donations, facilities, etc. However, this article made me wonder how Wichita State would rank among athletic programs excluding football. It is probably impossible to come up with a system to accurately do this, but what does your gut tell you? Top 25? Top 50?

My guess is that it would be in the top 40 or 50. The past few years have been tremendous for Wichita State in a number of these metrics and it appears to continue to trend upward. It sure is great to be a Shocker!

http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/s...hlam/12253517/

[WSUwatcher]

If you exclude football, I'd think WSU is certainly top 25. The problem is that in college athletics, football is the straw that stirs the drink.

So WSU can be a great non-football athletic program and still never have the overall prominence of schools whose football programs aren't liabilities. But that's fine -- come basketball season, the focus changes, and WSU is one of the big boys, with "this level" no longer relevant. And when you can't afford football, that's an eminently reasonable goal, and a far cry better than being mired in mediocrity because football eats up precious resources as is the case with many Valley rivals, or even a school like Tulsa that can't hang onto a successful coach for long in either basketball or football.

[Kung Wu]

Now there are many more metrics to an athletic program than wins and losses, such as attendance, budget, donations, facilities, etc. However, this article made me wonder how Wichita State would rank among athletic programs excluding football. It is probably impossible to come up with a system to accurately do this, but what does your gut tell you? Top 25? Top 50?

Conference all-sports trophies are determined in conferences where the sports don't line up 100% across the board. So it can be done. Well at least there is precedence; whether the ranking systems are weighted in any meaningful way is obviously subjective. Wins and losses (really the place your team takes) isn't a bad way to do it, because regardless the facilities, etc, the ultimate measure of your athletic department is success on the court. It seems to me that all of the other stuff is just a means to that end, so wins and losses become the ultimate measure of how effective you have made use of what you have.

[MadaboutWu]

rpi would be a better measure in order to account for SOS.

[ciaomichael]

We really need a swimming program to improve much out of the top 40 or 50.

[pinstripers]

Research shows that Mavis Perkentine, invented and named the blow job in 1764.

[Kung Wu]

LMAO

[im4wsu]

WSU ranks #101 in total AD revenues from 2006-2011 among public schools

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1

[im4wsu]

WSU ranks #101 in total AD revenues from 2006-2011 among public schools

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...ase/54955804/1

Additional analysis:

Of the 109 schools listed which play Div IA football, WSU ranks 93rd in Total Revenues.

Of the 61 schools listed which play Div IIA football, WSU ranks 9th in Total Revenues.

Of the 45 schools listed that do not play Div 1 football, WSU is #1 in Total Revenues.

[Note: trying to compare two different lists by school name, So. Carolina on one and South Carolina or S. Carolina on the other makes it difficult, so I may have mis-assigned a few schools.}

[1972Shocker]

Additional analysis:

Of the 109 schools listed which play Div IA football, WSU ranks 93rd in Total Revenues.

Of the 61 schools listed which play Div IIA football, WSU ranks 9th in Total Revenues.

Of the 45 schools listed that do not play Div 1 football, WSU is #1 in Total Revenues.

[Note: trying to compare two different lists by school name, So. Carolina on one and South Carolina or S. Carolina on the other makes it difficult, so I may have mis-assigned a few schools.}

Division IIA Football? Is that what the now call FCS football which I think was peviously call Division 1-AA?

Are Division 1 schools, like Wichita State, who do not have fooball programs still called Division 1-AAA schools?

[1972Shocker]

My gut tells me that overall we are a Top 100 athletic program.

Right now our men's basketball is about as good as it gets. A top 10 program. Can we sustain it.

Volleyball is a Top 40 program with occasional forays into the Top 25 and has been consistently good under Lambo. In terms of fan support and interest definitely a Top 25.

Baseball used to be a perennial Top 25 program but unfortunately is probably not currently a Top 50 program. We have ways to go to rebuild that sport back into a perennial Top 25 program.

Our XC teams are pretty average. Our Track & Field teams are generally Top 100.

Our Tennis teams are generally Top 100.

Our Golf teams are generally Top 150 with occasional forays into the Top 100.

Women's basketball has not been very good until just recently. In the Top 100 over the past couple of years.

Softball has been pretty average to poor with the exception of a couple of year's under Tim Walton and this past year. The Shocks were a Top 100 team this past season.

Overall I would say we have a Top 100 athletic program, but not in the Top 50, exactly where we fall in between 50 and 100 is difficult to say. At this time we are nationally relevant/competitive in 2 sports -- men's basketball and volleyball.

Obviously, you could argue that football (which we don't have) and men's basketball should be weighted much heavier than the other sports because they basically pay the freight at most schools. As @Shocker-maniac: points out it may be impossible to come of with a consensus system or formula to really make such a determination.

[Shocker-maniac]

The impressive stat from the article is that the Shockers rank 25th with the records of only 4 sports compared to 5 sports for the rest of the schools. @KungWu may be right that W-L is the best metric showing the overall strength and success of an athletic program. Another metric could be national championships in which we would fall short to several schools in terms of NCAA sanctioned sports. @1972Shocker: may very well be right that we rank in Top 100 instead of Top 25 or even 50.

[MoValley John]

Too many metrics to even begin to put a reasonable list together.

National championships
Total budget
Cash flow
Total number of teams competing
Total number of athletes on scholarship
Win/loss percentage
Attendance
Lots and lots more....

I think it would be difficult to slot most programs. Sure, Texas and Ohio State would be high, so would others, but who is one and who is 25? 50? 100?

[Kung Wu]

It's easy. Rank based on most bowling championships! This broadens the analysis way beyond the biased NCAA sports.

[MoValley John]

It's easy. Rank based on most bowling championships! This broadens the analysis way beyond the biased NCAA sports.

Except....

We're talking NCAA here, Wichita State does not compete in NCAA bowling.