An unbiased view of WSU vs Arizona Wildcats

[GarH]

Living in Tucson and southern Arizona for the last 40 years and after going to school at Wichita Southeast and WSU, I've been a diehard fan of UA and WSU for a long time. I watch about 80% to 90% of both teams games, so I think I have about as unbiased of view of them as anybody can.

Before Brandon Ashley went down for the season (while they were still unbeaten), I would have have given a SLIGHT edge to the Wildcats. With Brandon out for the rest of the year, I give the edge to the Shockers. Although they recruit totally different players, they are in many ways very similar. Both have very intense coaches whose players reflect their coache's intensity and toughness. Both coaches really emphasize defense and both teams play great defense. GM has done an incredible job developing 2 and 3 star players and getting them to play unselfish team basketball. Miller has done an incredible job this year getting 4 and 5 star players to play unselfish team basketball. Not an easy task as so often those type of players are just auditioning for the NBA in college. Before Ashley went down I thought both teams had a very good shot at playing in the NC game. Some players for the Wildcats are going to have to step up their offensive game before the dance for the Wildcats to get to the NC game. The loss of Ashley hasn't had a big impact on the Wildcats defense, but it has had a big impact on the offense.

With the BCS (BS) bias of many of the media that vote in the AP poll, I think it's very possible the Wildcats will still be ahead of the Shockers in the next poll. That would a shame and I hope I'm dead wrong. The Shockers deserve to move up.

Fire away.

[wufan]

Fire away.

No reason to disagree. WSU and Arizona are both "in the discussion".

[coran13]

First off, I don't really think the ratings mean anything. They're not objective. In saying that, the Wildcats have had their fair share of time at the top this season. They'll still be a high/top seed, and have a great shot at succeeding in the tournament. But there's no reason for them to remain above WSU. They've lost twice and they looked sad last night. Arizona shouldn't drop far, but they should at least drop below WSU, whose profile at this point looks superior in an eye-ball test.

[shocka khan]

I watched the game last night, too. I saw those 5 star players. Can you tell me why a team of 5 star players shoots 50% from the line and those horrible 3 stars can only hit 70%.

Seriously. As a fan of both teams, I really think that factor is a serious *****. The Shox would've won the game yesterday easily.

[im4wsu]

Comparative Stats from StatSheet

[pogo]

I watched the game last night, too. I saw those 5 star players. Can you tell me why a team of 5 star players shoots 50% from the line and those horrible 3 stars can only hit 70%.

Seriously. As a fan of both teams, I really think that factor is a serious *****. The Shox would've won the game yesterday easily.

When ever someone uses the term "easily" I get nervous. Like when the man from the federal guvmint shows up to help you.

[Fairgame]

Living in Tucson and southern Arizona for the last 40 years and after going to school at Wichita Southeast and WSU, I've been a diehard fan of UA and WSU for a long time. I watch about 80% to 90% of both teams games, so I think I have about as unbiased of view of them as anybody can.

Before Brandon Ashley went down for the season (while they were still unbeaten), I would have have given a SLIGHT edge to the Wildcats. With Brandon out for the rest of the year, I give the edge to the Shockers. Although they recruit totally different players, they are in many ways very similar. Both have very intense coaches whose players reflect their coache's intensity and toughness. Both coaches really emphasize defense and both teams play great defense. GM has done an incredible job developing 2 and 3 star players and getting them to play unselfish team basketball. Miller has done an incredible job this year getting 4 and 5 star players to play unselfish team basketball. Not an easy task as so often those type of players are just auditioning for the NBA in college. Before Ashley went down I thought both teams had a very good shot at playing in the NC game. Some players for the Wildcats are going to have to step up their offensive game before the dance for the Wildcats to get to the NC game. The loss of Ashley hasn't had a big impact on the Wildcats defense, but it has had a big impact on the offense.

With the BCS (BS) bias of many of the media that vote in the AP poll, I think it's very possible the Wildcats will still be ahead of the Shockers in the next poll. That would a shame and I hope I'm dead wrong. The Shockers deserve to move up.

Fire away.

I see what you are saying and I except that it is reasonable. But, one thing you said is wrong....Nobody has and "unbiased view" of anything. It is the nature of being human.

[Good News]

I see what you are saying and I except that it is reasonable. But, one thing you said is wrong....Nobody has and "unbiased view" of anything. It is the nature of being human.

Since we're splitting hairs... he didn't say he was unbiased. He made a statement about his bias relative to other people.

Nice insights GarH. I've been curious about this comparison in particular for some time now. One specific question though - how would you see the Gordon vs. Lufile/Coleby/Carter playing out? I'm comfortable with our 3 headed monster handling big physical centers that don't really have a faceup game, but Gordon seems like exactly the type of PF that would cause us the most problems.

[bhuber]

The way I would play Gordon is..."hack a Shak". If he gets position deep in the lane he likes to dunk on you. If he actually has to shoot it from 5-10 feet out he struggles big time....and his foul shooting is horrid.

[GarH]

Gordon is a horrible FT shooter but the rest of the team is better than they showed last night. He was usually not in the game late especially on offense when Ashley was healthy. Before Ashley went down, Gordon was mainly playing at the 3, sometimes the 4. Gordon is a very good defender and rebounder, but his offensive game needs a lot of work. He would very seldom be matched against the Shockers centers.

[wufan]

Gordon is a horrible FT shooter but the rest of the team is better than they showed last night. He was usually not in the game late especially on offense when Ashley was healthy. Before Ashley went down, Gordon was mainly playing at the 3, sometimes the 4. Gordon is a very good defender and rebounder, but his offensive game needs a lot of work. He would very seldom be matched against the Shockers centers.

You could put Wessel on him to foul and Carter has the foot speed.

[60Shock]

I simply do not understand comments like, "Ratings don't matter."

Does anyone really think we would EVER be get a number one slot in any regional if we drop out of the top four?

And if we lose one game between now and the final NCAA selection process, we can kiss a number one and possibly a number two slot goodbye.

[shock]

I simply do not understand comments like, "Ratings don't matter."

Does anyone really think we would EVER be get a number one slot in any regional if we drop out of the top four?

And if we lose one game between now and the final NCAA selection process, we can kiss a number one and possibly a number two slot goodbye.

If we dropped out of the top four, it would most likely be due to a reason that would also drop us from a #1 seed. Ratings don't matter, they are just a window into the tournament and a gauge for how a team is playing relative to other teams. Ratings don't matter if WSU wins out.

[forevershockerfan]

It is amazing to me too how much perspective has to do with much of this. How many games did we hear the experts on the tube tell the world before our games and even at halftime that they believed our beloved Shocks would lose at last years Dance? The Pitt fans last Season seemed to forget they had to play us as they looked ahead believing the Zags were overrated and they would for sure beat the Zags. Ooops. Incoming black and yellow roadblock spoiled their dreams to a vanishing vapor. It seemed as though most every team we played at the Dance had fans that sang the tune that proclaimed "We were just off today." Talk to KU fans and some will tell you Bill Self should be Coach of the Year this Season because they lost all of their starters and have a tough schedule. Talk to me and I will tell you 3G should have been Coach of the Year last Season. What if the Cuse does not run the table before the Dance, but we do? Would Coach Marshall then win that award?

Right now, all the hype and rhetoric is premature. There are lots of key games left. Once the best of the best Teams punch their ticket to the Dance, then that is when the rubber meets the road. A squash might grow faster than a tree in the woods. In terms of the Dance, which team has grown to withstand the stiff competion they will be sure to face. We all know too that the way the brackets are selected can have a huge impact as well. Who is hot and who is not? Matchups become of essence. Who is supposed to win but runs into a team that plays Defense like our Shocks did at the Dance last Season and is playing their best ball of the Season after overcoming injury issues all Season? Dunno, but that is why they play the games between the lines. Vegas had dismal odds on WSU making the Final 4 after only being picked 4th in the Valley last Season.

Last but not least, here is what I think right now. Last Season, our bench and depth was stronger than most at the Dance and as was our Defense. Baker's return was a huge lift and no team that Danced last Season had the injury issues all Season we faced. This Season, when the bell tolls and the Dance begins, we can safely assume that Baker, FVV, Cotton, and Cle will do well and do their part whether they are hot in each game or not. They do lots of things well, even on nights their scoring is off. Where we finish may be how all of our other rotation players produce? For us to go deep again at the Dance, Nick, Evan, Kadeem, Darius, Chadrack, and Derail must also produce. Not each player has to play solid each game, but some of them must contribute in each game. The more that happens, I believe the farther we will Dance on. After all, we luv Dancing clear into April and is is fun.

Speaking of perspective, for now, let's beat Evansville and learn from the win to help us to grow and improve one game at a time. Winning is fun as we keep progressing our black and yellow turnip truck onward for a Season to remember that is already loaded with Shocker records that begets more records.