Some thoughts on our Shockers

[RoyalShock]

College basketball has seen teams similar to WSU before. Smaller schools from non-power conferences made up of mostly upperclassmen (some who have probably seen a redshirt year) with good enough shooters to have games where they look unbeatable. You've seen them before, too. WSU, Bradley, SIU, UNI from 2006-2010. George Mason and VCU, too. They're fully capable of knocking off a mid-level powConf team and semi-elite in successive games. But once they're over-exposed to teams with 4-and-5-star talent, they get stopped dead in their tracks. If not, it's a fluke (GMU, VCU, WSU). Some will give due recognition but the majority will dismiss them.

What college basketball isn't used to seeing are those same smaller schools from the non-powConf with 3-4 players (two of whom are underclassmen) in their starting lineup who could start for almost any team in the country. Top-five teams are expected to win on accumulation of talent. Everyone knows only teams with 4-and-5-star recruits and a couple of early draft entrants belong in the top 5 and among NC contenders. Right?

But here is where things really diverge from conventional wisdom. When is the last time college basketball saw a non-powConf team, with 3-4 players who could start for nearly any team in the country, coming off a Final Four, who wins the way Wichita State wins? It's the consitently calm, tough, gritty, refuse-to-lose characteristics that rarely accompany teams with high-level talent. It's highly undervalued and it will take some time before the talking-heads who have never coached a D1 game (let alone the ignorant fans of powConf teams) give it the proper value.

Butler did lay some groundwork a few years ago, particularly in regards to the value of having an underrated coach, proving non-powConf schools could accumulate talent that the powConfs missed on, and following up a banner year with another banner year. I firmly believe that had Butler not gone to back-to-back NC games, WSU, if ranked at all to start this year, would not have been 16th, but outside the top-20.

So, I can't fault the media-types and fans too much for not believing WSU is a top-five team (mega-kudos to those who do). The Shockers are blazing the trail from where Butler left off (SDSU might be right there with us, too). Trailblazers have more doubters than believers during their quest. Unfortunately, the Valley isn't helping WSU this year, so our beloved Shocks are going to have to prove it in the dance, just like Butler before us.

For the record, I don't think it's going to take another Final Four to prove it. But it will take an Elite 8. How cool would it be for WSU, SDSU and SLU to get that far?

:bball_spin:

[jocoshock]

How cool would be? Global warmimg would reverse itself.. That's how cool it would be..

:~)

[molly jabali]

College basketball has seen teams similar to WSU before. Smaller schools from non-power conferences made up of mostly upperclassmen (some who have probably seen a redshirt year) with good enough shooters to have games where they look unbeatable. You've seen them before, too. WSU, Bradley, SIU, UNI from 2006-2010. George Mason and VCU, too. They're fully capable of knocking off a mid-level powConf team and semi-elite in successive games. But once they're over-exposed to teams with 4-and-5-star talent, they get stopped dead in their tracks. If not, it's a fluke (GMU, VCU, WSU). Some will give due recognition but the majority will dismiss them.

What college basketball isn't used to seeing are those same smaller schools from the non-powConf with 3-4 players (two of whom are underclassmen) in their starting lineup who could start for almost any team in the country. Top-five teams are expected to win on accumulation of talent. Everyone knows only teams with 4-and-5-star recruits and a couple of early draft entrants belong in the top 5 and among NC contenders. Right?

But here is where things really diverge from conventional wisdom. When is the last time college basketball saw a non-powConf team, with 3-4 players who could start for nearly any team in the country, coming off a Final Four, who wins the way Wichita State wins? It's the consitently calm, tough, gritty, refuse-to-lose characteristics that rarely accompany teams with high-level talent. It's highly undervalued and it will take some time before the talking-heads who have never coached a D1 game (let alone the ignorant fans of powConf teams) give it the proper value.

Butler did lay some groundwork a few years ago, particularly in regards to the value of having an underrated coach, proving non-powConf schools could accumulate talent that the powConfs missed on, and following up a banner year with another banner year. I firmly believe that had Butler not gone to back-to-back NC games, WSU, if ranked at all to start this year, would not have been 16th, but outside the top-20.

So, I can't fault the media-types and fans too much for not believing WSU is a top-five team (mega-kudos to those who do). The Shockers are blazing the trail from where Butler left off (SDSU might be right there with us, too). Trailblazers have more doubters than believers during their quest. Unfortunately, the Valley isn't helping WSU this year, so our beloved Shocks are going to have to prove it in the dance, just like Butler before us.

For the record, I don't think it's going to take another Final Four to prove it. But it will take an Elite 8. How cool would it be for WSU, SDSU and SLU to get that far?

:bball_spin:

Very well written!!!! Spot on!

[Rosewood]

I completely agree with what you are saying. I think now that Football is over we are going to see more national people taking a look at WSU. Some will just go to the College Basketball guys and get the talking points. Others will start fresh and I bet they will like what they see.

[Dan]

We're ranked #2 and #4 in the polls. I don't really care what the media says or thinks. We are setting new standards at WSU and we control our own destiny. My biggest concern right now is whether we can find it in ourselves to start stomping the crap out of our Valley opponents. I want to end this season on a high note and go into the tournament as the hottest team in the country.

[Heinro]

Just for fun speculation, what about a final four of WSU, SDSU, SLU, and Kansas. We meet Kansas in the first semi. (If we meet KU in a national semifinal, I will personally pay for a shitty "wheat stalk" toupee for Wu just to stick it to Self. )

Why do you have to ruin such a good day dream of WSU, SDSU, and SLU in the Final 4 with the nightmare of KU making it?

Personally, I'd be shocked if it is even possible. I would imagine SLU will be in the same bracket as WSU or SDSU, and perhaps even WSU/SDSU being the 2 to the others 1. Just to assure such wouldn't happen.

I would love to see the spin of a SDSU/WSU national championship. "It wasn't the caliber of the teams, but rather the popularity of the sport that we got record ratings."

[bhuber]

Well said.....100% agree

[WSUwatcher]

How cool would be? Global warmimg would reverse itself.. That's how cool it would be..

:~)

Gee, that's already happening -- the Shocks must be in for a big finish.

[CBB_Fan]

Closest match I can think of isn't Butler in 2011, or VCU, or even St. Joes's in 2004. It goes back a little farther to UNLV in 1991.

Off a Final Four run: Check (actually championship)
Undefeated through regular season: Yep
Power conference: Nope, Big West
Players that could play anywhere: Well, they had the #1 draft pick and two other lottery picks that year
Tough schedule? Nope, #72 in the nation (despite playing the #2 in the country, their conference was arguably even weaker than the MVC is now)

Now obviously that '91 team was one of the best in the history of the game. They weren't just going coming off a Final Four, but the most dominant championship performance in history. They didn't just have "good" players, but the #1 draft pick. But they are still a closer match than some of the more fluky teams that made the Final Four off of a few good shooting nights in a row. Player by player:

Larry Johnson - Cleanthony Early: A 6'7 or 6'8 forward, leads the team in scoring, likes to shoot 3s
Stacey Augmon - Tekele Cotton: Monstrous defender with the ability to make spectacular highlight plays
Greg Anthony - Fred Van Vleet: Good defender, highly intelligent, ran the offense smoothly
Anderson Hunt - Ron Baker: Smooth shooting stroke, solid perimeter defense, above average athleticism
George Ackles - Darius Carter: JUCO transfer, very athletic, liked to dunk and block shots

Some might say that the comparison to a one of the best teams of all times is a little presumptuous, but I think it makes sense except as a matter of scale. We are coming off a good, but challenging Final Four run. They came off of a ridiculously dominant championship run. We are beating people with an SRS of 16.04 (basically, what you'd beat the average team by), they did so by 31.11. We have a few players that might play in the NBA; they had 3 drafted in the first 12 picks.

But we have similar players, play in a similar conference, and could sweep our schedule (which hasn't been done since then). And while we aren't quite at the that level, no one in college basketball is. As a whole, early defections to the NBA have sapped the talent level from college basketball. It had been 20 years since players had been drafted straight from high school or went early to the NBA, so the best of the best played multiple years and thus the best teams were playing at an extremely high level. Then Kevin Garnett was drafted in 1995, opening the floodgates for talent to skip (or at least partially skip the college game). My point is that even a close approximation of that UNLV team is good enough to go all the way this year.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

yeah thats a reach bud.

Royal, great thoughts and all very on point

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

as I stated on espy..

Whats funny about people complaining about Wichita State playing nobody is the simple fact that scheduling is a crap shoot. BYU over the past decade has been a pretty damn good basketball team and was expected to follow suit. Have they lived up to their hype? Probably not. But how can we control that? Texas is finally hitting their stride after sucking at the beginning of the year. Had they been playing the way they are now we could have proven ourselves against them instead of BYU.

We scheduled two power conference teams in Alabama and Tennessee who did not live up to their expectations and somehow this is our fault? So we shouldn't be ranked or given the respect because other teams don't live up to their hype?

This is the logic we're dealing with here. We made the schedule, we played the schedule and we have dominated the schedule. But somehow we're supposed to be sorry about this and we shouldn't receive any accolades because of?

These douchebags keep yelling for us to "play someone" yet their teams won't play us. And when its brought up the excuse is "we have nothing to gain by playing you" So then why complain about our schedule? And further Im waiting for someone to explain how we cannot compete with the rest of the top 10. This team returns EVERY SINGLE PLAYER from Final 4 team last year minus 2. And while losing both hurts one of their replacements also happens to be one of if not THE best PG in the country.

[Play Angry]

Our OOC schedule has actually lived up to expectations for the most part.

Alabama and ORU have underachieved. BYU and SLU have overperformed relative to preseason hype, or lack thereof. Tennessee is basically right where it started in November. The rest are mostly a wash.

We are projected to have an OOC SOS of 39. That's fine. The MVC's pathetic non-conference performance is the reason for our lackluster overall SOS.

[proshox]

We are the fourth ranked team in the nation. Number two in the coaches poll. The biggest "haters" think we are the 11th best team which places us squarely between Kenpom.com and ESPN BPI. We have multiple articles written everyday and most are about how great of a coach, players, arena, fans, administration or total program we have. So I ask you - What accolades do you want? I can go get us milk and cookies if it makes us feel better, but until we secure some hardware it isn't going to get much better.

I just want everyone to enjoy the ride. Let any perceive slights motivate the team, but please enjoy this incredible ride.

[CBB_Fan]

yeah thats a reach bud.

Royal, great thoughts and all very on point

I'll remind you of what sparked my post:

When is the last time college basketball saw a non-powConf team, with 3-4 players who could start for nearly any team in the country, coming off a Final Four, who wins the way Wichita State wins?

If you can find a better match than that UNLV team, I'd like to hear it. But I do think we are blazing our own path.

[1972Shocker]

We are the fourth ranked team in the nation. Number two in the coaches poll. The biggest "haters" think we are the 11th best team which places us squarely between Kenpom.com and ESPN BPI. We have multiple articles written everyday and most are about how great of a coach, players, arena, fans, administration or total program we have. So I ask you - What accolades do you want? I can go get us milk and cookies if it makes us feel better, but until we secure some hardware it isn't going to get much better.

I just want everyone to enjoy the ride. Let any perceive slights motivate the team, but please enjoy this incredible ride.

Milk and cookies would be very nice, but some hardware would be even better.

:poster_shocks: