Interesting article in regards to Hawkins

[shockmonster]

You know what monster, you're right. All us Shocker fans that want 3G to sign the waiver are not REAL WSU fans like you. We're just a bunch lilly livered, mambie-pambie, ISUR lovin pishers, who don't really give a fat rats ass about WSU. All we really want is for 3G to disregard the rules. Disregard what is best for WSU. Do what is best for Hawkins and ISUR. That way 3G will look like a good guy and he and WSU will be well liked.

O.K. YOU WIN!

Feel better now?

Wow. I don't think I said those things at all. I was a little (no a lot) sarcastic and you are being defensive. I will just suffice it to say that Gregg will never sign this waiver and if that makes him "unfeeling" or a lesser person for "not taking the high ground" he will not care. If anyone is realistic and places themselves in his shoes, they will know where he is coming from and that it isn't even an option that he'll consider.

[pinstripers]

Pretty rare when anybody signs the waiver within the same conference, isn't it?

[shockmonster]

Pretty rare when anybody signs the waiver within the same conference, isn't it?

+1

[Dave Stalwart]

Any bird fans that are trying to paint this as a "mean" thing to not sign it are embarrassing themselves and their program. It effectively admits you are struggling and basically looking for a handout.
If you have pride, you don't even bring it up. How embarrassing would it be to need this from another coach in your conference under this set of circumstances.

If I were Muller, I wouldn't want to place myself at the mercy of my nemesis. That is weakness. The fanbase may not be thinking that way, but Muller is a hotshot and he is thinking it.
This will never even come across Marshall's desk. I suppose if it ever did, I might go ahead and sign it, making sure to put a smiley face, a little girly flower drawing, and a "how cute that you asked"

[Aargh]

If this is true that WSU has to approve Hawkins prior to his being eligible, I think that Marshall should take the advice of so many posters on her (during the past week regarding this matter). He should disregard what the rules say, disregard what is best for the Shockers and sign the waiver to help Hawkins and ISU. Then he'll show what a good guy he is. Maybe then, WSU and Gregg will be well liked. :)

Okey, people - I guess this needs to be made easier.

If the part I highlighted didn't peg your Srcasm Meter - it's broken.

[Kung Wu]

Don't sign it to take the high ground. Sign it to humiliate them further by kicking their ass for the next two years anyway because of their fans' and coach's crappy behavior up in Faillinois.

[ShockTalk]

Any bird fans that are trying to paint this as a "mean" thing to not sign it are embarrassing themselves and their program. It effectively admits you are struggling and basically looking for a handout.
If you have pride, you don't even bring it up. How embarrassing would it be to need this from another coach in your conference under this set of circumstances.

If I were Muller, I wouldn't want to place myself at the mercy of my nemesis. That is weakness. The fanbase may not be thinking that way, but Muller is a hotshot and he is thinking it.
This will never even come across Marshall's desk. I suppose if it ever did, I might go ahead and sign it, making sure to put a smiley face, a little girly flower drawing, and a "how cute that you asked"

This!! It was Muller's doing clearing out the locker room and now he'd be asking for Marshall's help to fill it up again. How more demeaning can one make themselves? I would hope that Muller was looking for a positive ruling in his favor from the league office. If he didn't get it, he would move on. If not, his rep will be trashed. Note: I would be almost positive that other coaches in the Valley would not want Marshall to sign such a waiver (whether they would admit it or not) as such could affect their own team's outcome....maybe they have a better chance staying out of the Thursday play-in game. Maybe they don't want to be put in such a situation of signing a waiver.

[Dan]

Dan Muller: "I'm going to turn this program around.The first thing I need to do is a hire a good recruiter."
Dana Ford: "Hire me coach. I've been recruiting a lot of players that WSU hasn't signed yet. Teddy Hawkins is in my back pocket"
Gregg Marshall taking a call from Muller: "You want me to do what? Teddy Hawkins isn't my problem. Yeah, we recruited him and then placed him at a prep school but he couldn't get his act together so we moved on" "You wany me to do what? Listen, I did everything I could to get him help, he's not my problem anymore. Good luck with that."

[Rlh04d]

Don't sign it to take the high ground. Sign it to humiliate them further by kicking their ass for the next two years anyway because of their fans' and coach's crappy behavior up in Faillinois.

That's primarily why I don't want us to sign it. For any other program in the Valley, I wouldn't care ... but they're the only program that I'm okay with taking a hit to our RPI by making them worse. The other programs, I'd say we don't have any reason to fear anyone and the better they are the more it helps our RPI. Not them.

Regardless, I think the conference rules exist for exactly situations like this: to keep programs from poaching talent from others within the conference by, say, hiring away their primary recruiter and essentially buying a player.

[Shox21]

I do believe we may have the cart before the horse here. Does anyone even know if a request for a waiver has been made? And if it has, I have every faith in Marshall's judgment that he will do what is best for WSU. (In other words, he will DO EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS TO DO AND IT SHOULD BE WITH ALL OUR BLESSINGS!)

[Kung Wu]

So does it appear Marshall signed it with the contingency that the kid can't play against us?

[MoValley John]

So does it appear Marshall signed it with the contingency that the kid can't play against us?

I don't think he signed anything, nor do I think he was asked. I stand by my original thinking that since the NCAA deems the LOI invalid, the Valley can't enforce a rule based on an invalid document. Elgin could try, but Hawkins would most surely sue, and probably win. The decision allows Hawkins to play, keeps him from competing against Wichita State for what would be the duration of the two years and allows the Valley office to operate as if they have credible authority. Everybody's kind of happy, nobody is totally happy. And yes, Elgin pulled this out of his ass.

[Kung Wu]

I don't think he signed anything, nor do I think he was asked. I stand by my original thinking that since the NCAA deems the LOI invalid, the Valley can't enforce a rule based on an invalid document. Elgin could try, but Hawkins would most surely sue, and probably win. The decision allows Hawkins to play, keeps him from competing against Wichita State for what would be the duration of the two years and allows the Valley office to operate as if they have credible authority. Everybody's kind of happy, nobody is totally happy. And yes, Elgin pulled this out of his ass.

I'll go with: I agree Marshall didn't sign squat -- why would he?

But the MVC rule doesn't hinge on the NCAA rule ... it's pretty clear: "a student-athlete who has accepted or received an athletic scholarship award at a member institution of the MVC", which Hawkins did definitely "accept" it regardless whether he qualified to "receive" it. And the MVC isn't owned by the NCAA.

So he's left off the hook of the NLI, but he accepted a scholarship at an MVC school, so Elgin has to kick him in the grapes somehow. This is a minor kick to the nads from WSU's perspective compared to what the rules say ... but then again the rule is probably too crappy anyway.

Next year FVV and Baker will be juniors and Cotton will be a senior. I don't give a crap who plays for Illinois State, we're going to be in contention for a National 'Ship!!!

[MoValley John]

The Valley rule absolutely hinges on the NCAA rule. The offer and acceptance of a scholarship hinges directly on the LOI. If that weren't the case, Hawkins would be at Wichita State now, that is, if the scholarship offer was valid. Hawkins wouldn't have gone to bum rack Iowa, he would have gone to Wichita State on an athletic scholarship. He simply would sit his first year out.

I can see it being argued both ways, but in cases like this, the courts generally side with the athlete. It is a case Elgin couldn't risk. He probably would lose. And with an ineligible Hawkins going to Illinois State, you know Teddy was ready to sue the second Elgin didn't rule in his favor.

I think Hawkins has Jackie Chiles on retainer. Jackie Chiles loves these cases.

[WSUwatcher]

Come on, MVJ -- I doubt that Hawkins knows what a "lawsuit" is. He probably thinks it's a cop's uniform (or maybe a ref's).