Interesting article in regards to Hawkins

[Kung Wu]

Here is a portion of what the student-athlete signs that seems to be relevant to the discussion:

b. Eligibility Requirements. This NLI shall be declared null and void if, by the opening day of classes in fall 2013, I have not met NCAA initial eligibility requirements; NCAA, conference or institution’s requirements for athletics financial aid; or two-year college transfer requirements, provided I have submitted all necessary documents for eligibility determination.

1) This NLI shall be rendered null and void if I become a nonqualifier (per NCAA Bylaw 14.3). This NLI remains valid if I am a partial qualifier per NCAA Division II rules unless I do not meet the institution’s policies for receipt of athletics aid.

(2) It is my obligation to register with and provide information to the NCAA Eligibility Center. If I fail to submit the necessary documentation for an initial-eligibility decision and have not attended classes at the signing institution, the NLI office per its review with the institution will determine the status of the NLI.

source

Of course ... I may be off in the weeds and none of this may be relevant due to my own ignorance and misunderstanding this stuff. I'll leave it up to professional bloodsuckers -- urr lawyers -- like @rjl: to opine.

[Kung Wu]

Fair enough. But transfer rules like this have nothing to do with the NCAA and are based off of Conference rules. So I'm not sure that how the NCAA sees it has any effect on how the MVC rules on it and I don't think the NCAA would have any say on the matter.

Yeah I wasn't saying the NCAA has any say whatsoever. I was only saying that I can see where the MVC would take a stance that "that's how the NCAA sees it, so that's how we'll do it." But again, the MVC can do whatever they want in this situation.

Personally, I don't care either way how this goes as the kid is a head case and we're better off without him.

Same here.

And am I reading you correctly that you believe that the ruling should be different if a kid is eligible but chooses to go to prep school to enhance his options and maybe even better prepare for education as opposed to a guy like Hawkins who couldn't cut it? I understand the differences but if we're simply talking about NLI rules, they appear the same to me in that the NLI is null and void after the year it's signed.

No I am saying that the ruling is the same, and that the NCAA has already worked through the scenario where a kid signs an NLI and tries to escape it by going to a prep school to get out of it when he was academically eligible.

[Redbird!]

New poster here and big Redbird fan. First just want to say I enjoy the rivalry with WSU and congrats on a hell of a year. Muller has yet to say anything on Hawkins which makes me believe that they are waiting to either see how he does in summer school or waiting on other information. As for Benson he is not what you would call an investigative reporter. He was the first to announce Rob Judson got the HC over Muller and it turned into a mess. Ever since that time he seems to gun-shy on any info. Also most of you will be surprised at some of the talent coming in next year. Zach Lofton will surprise many. Don't forget who helped recruit most of the talent at WSU the last couple years.

[SubGod22]

Don't forget who helped recruit most of the talent at WSU the last couple years.

Chris Jans? What about him?

[WuDrWu]

New poster here and big Redbird fan. First just want to say I enjoy the rivalry with WSU and congrats on a hell of a year. Muller has yet to say anything on Hawkins which makes me believe that they are waiting to either see how he does in summer school or waiting on other information. As for Benson he is not what you would call an investigative reporter. He was the first to announce Rob Judson got the HC over Muller and it turned into a mess. Ever since that time he seems to gun-shy on any info. Also most of you will be surprised at some of the talent coming in next year. Zach Lofton will surprise many. Don't forget who helped recruit most of the talent at WSU the last couple years.

Thanks. Respectful posters are VERY welcomed on this board. It's always good to hear new perspectives.

A couple of things though. I think you'll be surprised at what most WSU fans know.....we know you're bringing in some talent. But let's not kid ourselves....this isn't Kentucky '13.

Also, I'm going to have to be reminded what players Dana delivered to WSU.

[Redbird!]

Never said Jans didn't recruit. Was just saying Ford was probably instrumental in getting some of WSU's key players. Everyone on here appears to not be to upset about losing Hawkins. There could be a switch that goes off with Hawkins that he is running out of time to get it together and play D1. I don't think Muller is risking much especially if he is paying his own way.

[Dave Stalwart]

Thanks. Respectful posters are VERY welcomed on this board. It's always good to hear new perspectives.

A couple of things though. I think you'll be surprised at what most WSU fans know.....we know you're bringing in some talent. But let's not kid ourselves....this isn't Kentucky '13.

Also, I'm going to have to be reminded what players Dana delivered to WSU.

FreshVV?

[Redbird!]

Thanks. Respectful posters are VERY welcomed on this board. It's always good to hear new perspectives.

A couple of things though. I think you'll be surprised at what most WSU fans know.....we know you're bringing in some talent. But let's not kid ourselves....this isn't Kentucky '13.

Also, I'm going to have to be reminded what players Dana delivered to WSU.

VanFleet was a Ford recruit wasn't he? Im not saying its Kentucky 13' and trust me I know there will be trying times. There has been a lot of recent chatter that Jank let a lot of behind the scenes stuff go on that Muller will not allow. Which many wondered last year if this was the case. Thinking about making the trip to Wichita this year so hopefully we can field a decent team that way I don't take to much abuse while I am there.:joyous:

[WuDrWu]

Chris Jans was the guy with Fred. Not saying Dana wasn't involved.

[Dave Stalwart]

Never said Jans didn't recruit. Was just saying Ford was probably instrumental in getting some of WSU's key players. Everyone on here appears to not be to upset about losing Hawkins. There could be a switch that goes off with Hawkins that he is running out of time to get it together and play D1. I don't think Muller is risking much especially if he is paying his own way.

Marshall said a lot of good things about Ford. Honestly, I think the fact that Ford was a guy Marshall liked and believed in was a lot of why it was a frustration that he backed out on his word and left early.

The humanist in my hopes that Hawkins turns out alright and winds up playing eventually. I kind of pull for just about everyone to do okay in life on some level. We probably should take it a little easier on it, but the whole situation is a little annoying, even if we have moved on and landed better recruits since.

[SubGod22]

Chris Jans was the guy with Fred. Not saying Dana wasn't involved.

I believe you're right. But FVV is also the only recruit I can think of that really has a Dana connection. 3G, Jans and Heier have been where it's at the last few years. Dana has a lot of upside I think in recruiting/coaching, but he was the low man on the totem pole on our staff.

[Dave Stalwart]

Thanks. Respectful posters are VERY welcomed on this board. It's always good to hear new perspectives.

A couple of things though. I think you'll be surprised at what most WSU fans know.....we know you're bringing in some talent. But let's not kid ourselves....this isn't Kentucky '13.

Also, I'm going to have to be reminded what players Dana delivered to WSU.

Yes. Redbird!, I'm glad you are here. Its the middle of the off season, and any newcomer from another team is welcome with me. Anything MVC related and worth talking about is entertaining for me. I hope you'll stick around even if we give you trouble sometimes. In fact, I'm really starting to miss LuskingforGuttin, too. I don't know ANYTHING about the Bears right now. I would like to hear a rundown on why we will finish in the lower half of the conference, while the Bears pass us by. That would really get things going.

[Redbird!]

Marshall said a lot of good things about Ford. Honestly, I think the fact that Ford was a guy Marshall liked and believed in was a lot of why it was a frustration that he backed out on his word and left early.

The humanist in my hopes that Hawkins turns out alright and winds up playing eventually. I kind of pull for just about everyone to do okay in life on some level. We probably should take it a little easier on it, but the whole situation is a little annoying, even if we have moved on and landed better recruits since.

I understand WSU fans being frustrated with Hawkins and Ford, but it is the way of the world in college basketball. Coaches leave all the time after saying they are committed for the long haul. Players are no different and honestly I love rivalries. SO if this help the competition in the Valley I am all for it. I think with Creighton gone the Valley desperately needs ILL St to be a top tier team. Muller has yet to prove much, but I think he has the same mentality as Marshal and thinks that ILL ST can be a big time program.

[pinstripers]

sure

[newshock1234]

how did ford help recruit the players we have the last couple years when he was only here for 1 year?