Interesting article in regards to Hawkins

[shockmonster]

By the way, ISUR had the option to send Hawkins to a juco but chose to take the short, easy way. Then they expect a favor?

[Kung Wu]

There is no high ground when you are in the league. You don't help the other teams in the league at your expense. It will come back to bite you. Outside the league is different.

It's not clear cut that signing the waiver is helping ISUR. Hawkins has the potential to be candy coated poison.

I dislike the concept of using recruits (even committed) as weapons, but I do understand it. Two years seems exceptionally harsh but the conference does have an obligation to stop intra-conference pilfering.

The good news is Marshall will be justified in whatever decision he makes -- neither one is wrong.

[MoValley John]

I am no expert on NCAA's rules, so I have a question. Regardless of the waiver, I wonder whether or not the LOI is even valid. Since Hawkins was ineligible, did not attend WSU, and instead, went to prep school for a semester, is the LOI even valid? Is the Valley rule even enforceable? Yes, Wichita State signed the kid, but he was not qualified to participate anyway, he received zero grant and aid from Wichita State and no benefits.

I just wonder if the rule is even enforceable and whether or not any commissioner would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. One way or another, somebody gets sued.
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[WSUwatcher]

"You can’t really blame the Shockers or Marshall, either. What school in their right mind would do that and then have it come back to bite them, possibly costing them an NCAA Tournament berth?"

HAHAHAHA! Now that is some funny stuff coming from the most-likely-to-be-irrelevant team the next few years....

Yes, Jim Benson appears to be an EXCEEDINGLY optimistic Redbird follower.

[pie n eye]

It it were me, I'd sign it. They'll be the team that stole a player from a team in their own conference and we'll be the gracious team who allowed the kid to pursue his dreams wherever he wants. Oh, and well still beat Illinois state either way. Not signing it would be petty and childish in my opinion.

I mean the last time they snagged one of our recruits it turned out no to be a big deal. (Sampay?)

[GoShockers89]

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[Kung Wu]

I am no expert on NCAA's rules, so I have a question. Regardless of the waiver, I wonder whether or not the LOI is even valid. Since Hawkins was ineligible, did not attend WSU, and instead, went to prep school for a semester, is the LOI even valid? Is the Valley rule even enforceable? Yes, Wichita State signed the kid, but he was not qualified to participate anyway, he received zero grant and aid from Wichita State and no benefits.

I just wonder if the rule is even enforceable and whether or not any commissioner would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. One way or another, somebody gets sued.
I

Excellent point. Because he was a non-qualifier his NLI becomes null and void. Since the NLI is null and void, I would think the conference rule also becomes null and void.

[Dave Stalwart]

Excellent point. Because he was a non-qualifier his NLI becomes null and void. Since the NLI is null and void, I would think the conference rule also becomes null and void.

So if all this is true, then what we had here is a typical Redbird fan finding ways to take shots at WSU/Marshall about something that might not even exist.

[Aargh]

Hawkins is in summer school at IlSU on his own dime. Muller is risking nothing. Muller is desperate and convinced Hawkins to pay his own way to see if he can pass the clearinghouse. I don't know if a coach as relatively inexperienced as Muller can handle a case like Hawkins.

I don't think IlSU is doing Hawkins any favors. It's going to be hard to pay off those loans to pay his own way on the janitor's salary he's likely to be getting in a few years.

[Kung Wu]

Excellent point. Because he was a non-qualifier his NLI becomes null and void. Since the NLI is null and void, I would think the conference rule also becomes null and void.

Well the conference rule doesn't hinge on the NLI actually. The conference rules says "a student-athlete who has accepted or received an athletic scholarship award at a member institution of the MVC".

But the argument is still a good one. Since the NLI is null and void, the scholarship award went with it, and therefore so did the ability of the student-athlete to "accept" it.

[Kung Wu]

So if all this is true, then what we had here is a typical Redbird fan finding ways to take shots at WSU/Marshall about something that might not even exist.

I don't think he's taking shots. I think he's just unaware of the NLI becoming null and void.

[SubGod22]

Well the conference rule doesn't hinge on the NLI actually. The conference rules says "a student-athlete who has accepted or received an athletic scholarship award at a member institution of the MVC".

But the argument is still a good one. Since the NLI is null and void, the scholarship award went with it, and therefore so did the ability of the student-athlete to "accept" it.

However, according to this wording, by signing the NLI he accepted an athletic scholarship. Just because he couldn't qualify may not change how the MVC sees it. How would it be looked upon if someone signed a NLI and then decided to go to a prep school even though they had the grades and then ended up at another MVC school? Would that be viewed differently than a nonqualifier?

[Kung Wu]

However, according to this wording, by signing the NLI he accepted an athletic scholarship. Just because he couldn't qualify may not change how the MVC sees it. How would it be looked upon if someone signed a NLI and then decided to go to a prep school even though they had the grades and then ended up at another MVC school? Would that be viewed differently than a nonqualifier?

No, the student athlete has a responsibility to submit eligibility documentation to the NCAA where qualification/disqualification is determined (which often leads kids to go to prep school instead). There appear to be penalties if the student qualifies but chooses not to attend. There also appear to be penalties if they don't submit their documentation.

You are correct that the MVC may interpret it that there was an acceptance of a scholarship regardless of eligibility outcome, but that pits them against the NCAA's rules and I doubt that would interpret a rule in such a way that it would be in conflict with the NCAA. But you never know.

Really the MVC will just interpret it in such a way that WSU loses, that's the only thing I am pretty certain of.

[SubGod22]

No, the student athlete has a responsibility to submit eligibility documentation to the NCAA where qualification/disqualification is determined (which often leads kids to go to prep school instead). There appear to be penalties if the student qualifies but chooses not to attend. There also appear to be penalties if they don't submit their documentation.

You are correct that the MVC may interpret it that there was an acceptance of a scholarship regardless of eligibility outcome, but that pits them against the NCAA's rules and I doubt that would interpret a rule in such a way that it would be in conflict with the NCAA. But you never know.

Really the MVC will just interpret it in such a way that WSU loses, that's the only thing I am pretty certain of.

Fair enough. But transfer rules like this have nothing to do with the NCAA and are based off of Conference rules. So I'm not sure that how the NCAA sees it has any effect on how the MVC rules on it and I don't think the NCAA would have any say on the matter.

Personally, I don't care either way how this goes as the kid is a head case and we're better off without him.

And am I reading you correctly that you believe that the ruling should be different if a kid is eligible but chooses to go to prep school to enhance his options and maybe even better prepare for education as opposed to a guy like Hawkins who couldn't cut it? I understand the differences but if we're simply talking about NLI rules, they appear the same to me in that the NLI is null and void after the year it's signed.

[WuDrWu]

I wonder how this whole thing started. Who is the guy from ISU? It's not their beat writer is it? I for one think it's unlikely that the "release" question would ever get to HCGM. I think it would be a non-starter. If it turns out that is correct, I wonder what goal the writer, or whomever prompted the writer, had in mind?

It appears on the surface (admittedly, from a biased point of view) to be written so as to disparage WSU and HCGM. I doubt 3G will take that well.