Is it me or

[im4wsu]

Especially when you consider many freshmen are not physically ready to compete at the D1 level and need a redshirt year. Makes a Juco even more appealing. I agree with the freshman approach but love what Marshall and staff are doing in the Juco ranks as well.

The potential problem is if you are counting on a player to provide many minutes and he doesn't make the transition well, there could be a big hole in the armament. What if Malcolm didn't live up to expectations after sitting out a year? What if Kadeem doesn't? We're kind of counting on him big time.

Of course, HCGM and assistants have watched him and coached him for a year, so they kind of know what to expect, and if the signs weren't positive, the'd have probably recruited a bit differently.

[wufan]

What I see from this staff is that they:

Target high school players: Aaron Ellis, Kyles, Murry, Stutz, Hamilton, Manigault, Williams, Cotton, Wessel, White, Green, Van Vleet, Bowles, Holland, Morris

Target JUCO All-Americans: Griskenas, Hannah (not an AA), Ragland, Smith, Hall, Early, Wiggins, Carter

Are open to transfers: AJ Hawkins, Gabe Blair, Coy, Armstead, Coleby

Are faithful to HS students that didn't make grades: Orukpe, Watson

Take fill in JUCOs: Chamberlain, Anacreon, Lufile

Take fill in freshman: Richardson, Baker, Ede

By my count, over the past seven classes, HCGM and staff have successfully signed 15 high school targets and 8 JUCO targets (7 1st/2nd team AAs). For fillers, they've signed 5 transfers, 2 hybrids (recruited and placed), 3 JUCO best availables and 3 HS best availables.

IMO, the staff targets top 100-250 high school talent and top 20 JUCO talent to get 2/3 of their players, or 8-9 of 13 scholarship spots on average. They then prefer to fill in with transfers or kids that WANT to be Shockers (Orukpe/Watson/Armstead/Lufile/Baker/Coleby).

I'm quite comfortable with this approach.

[Rlh04d]

True, or KU for that matter... and I didn't imply otherwise. I was just pointing out that a Drake, Evansville, Creighton/Loyola, or Bradley will not likely have the same opportunity for Juco players as WSU. Some of you guys seem a little tense.

You're implying it's a matter of academics, and it's not. Those colleges, while decent, aren't that good academically. And Creighton has already shown they have no problem recruiting players who are literally illiterate and giving them a diploma.

But no, those teams won't have the same opportunity for Juco players as WSU. WSU has been very lucky in having assistant coaches like Heiar who have a track record with Juco players, and now WSU overall has such a track record with Juco players the program already sells itself. Any Juco player we want knows full well that he'll be given every opportunity to succeed. But we had a significant advantage in building that reputation because of the coaches on our staff.

[Rlh04d]

The potential problem is if you are counting on a player to provide many minutes and he doesn't make the transition well, there could be a big hole in the armament. What if Malcolm didn't live up to expectations after sitting out a year? What if Kadeem doesn't? We're kind of counting on him big time.

Of course, HCGM and assistants have watched him and coached him for a year, so they kind of know what to expect, and if the signs weren't positive, the'd have probably recruited a bit differently.

Kadeem also spent a year in the Sun Belt already, where he was dominant. He isn't fresh out of JUCO. The Sun Belt might not be the Valley, but he has significant D1 experience already.

[im4wsu]

Kadeem also spent a year in the Sun Belt already, where he was dominant. He isn't fresh out of JUCO. The Sun Belt might not be the Valley, but he has significant D1 experience already.

I wasn't implying anything about Kadeem, just sayin' that there is potential for expectations not to be met, or injury might occur. You get a Juco or transfer with one to play one and have a Baker-tpe injury, you've got nothin' compared tohaving Baker for three years.

[shockkansas]

You're right. If anyone should be tense around here, it probably should be you, considering what's swirling around up in that neck of the woods.

Kharma? I doubt it, Fever is an ass to so many people, kharma could not keep up with him.

I didn't mean to "imply" academics was the reason, I meant to "state as fact" academics is the reason lots of schools can't take JUCOS like WSU and KSU. I'm not comparing Creighton to Harvard, I'm just saying you gotta have a 2.75 GPA to transfer there. If Carl Hall had a 2.75 at his Georgia CC, do you think he would have transfered to a Florida CC, just to avoid a test?

[pie n eye]

The potential problem is if you are counting on a player to provide many minutes and he doesn't make the transition well, there could be a big hole in the armament. What if Malcolm didn't live up to expectations after sitting out a year? What if Kadeem doesn't? We're kind of counting on him big time.

Of course, HCGM and assistants have watched him and coached him for a year, so they kind of know what to expect, and if the signs weren't positive, the'd have probably recruited a bit differently.

The bust potential is the same or higher for a true freshman. If a JUCO doesn't work out you recruit a new player in 2 years. If a HS player doesn't work out they're taking a scholarship for 4 years. Unless you can find somewhere for them to land.

Obviously on the other hand of that HS guy is a stud then it pays off big time.

[Rlh04d]

Kharma? I doubt it, Fever is an ass to so many people, kharma could not keep up with him.

I didn't mean to "imply" academics was the reason, I meant to "state as fact" academics is the reason lots of schools can't take JUCOS like WSU and KSU. I'm not comparing Creighton to Harvard, I'm just saying you gotta have a 2.75 GPA to transfer there. If Carl Hall had a 2.75 at his Georgia CC, do you think he would have transfered to a Florida CC, just to avoid a test?

Again, Creighton has literally given diplomas to basketball players that are illiterate.

Academics is not holding back private schools like Creighton. They have CLEARLY shown in the past that they have no problem finding ways around any GPA requirements.

http://espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/show103transcript.html

[SB Shock]

The bust potential is the same or higher for a true freshman. If a JUCO doesn't work out you recruit a new player in 2 years. If a HS player doesn't work out they're taking a scholarship for 4 years. Unless you can find somewhere for them to land.

Under Turgeon/Marshall there has been plenty examples of High School student athletes not working out and the program moves on with out them. So it is clear the program is not "stuck" with anybody for 4 years.

The difference I see between HS and JUCO is you recruiting a HS athlete to be solid contributor for probably 3-4 years and may be in the program for 5 years, where a JUCO player is recruited to fill an immediate need where you failed in your HS recruiting. If you are wrong on the JUCO you may be screwed for that up and coming year. Whereas if you fail with the HS, you have a year or two to figure it out and recruit either another HS or JUCO. I think for long term stability of the program it would be better for the program to get to where it can be dependent on 4 year players than transfers/jucos.

[shockmonster]

Without not getting too philosophical on any issue, I will add to this discussion, that I think for the long term good of the program, we need to keep Gregg here if possible and continue to win every year, go to NCAA Tournaments, and Final Fours. Whatever way he thinks is the way to do that I can support.

[ShockerFever]

Kharma? I doubt it, Fever is an ass to so many people, kharma could not keep up with him.

I didn't mean to "imply" academics was the reason, I meant to "state as fact" academics is the reason lots of schools can't take JUCOS like WSU and KSU. I'm not comparing Creighton to Harvard, I'm just saying you gotta have a 2.75 GPA to transfer there. If Carl Hall had a 2.75 at his Georgia CC, do you think he would have transfered to a Florida CC, just to avoid a test?

Don't even go there, kevkan.

What is this "kharma" you're referring to?

[shockkansas]

Again, Creighton has literally given diplomas to basketball players that are illiterate.

Academics is not holding back private schools like Creighton. They have CLEARLY shown in the past that they have no problem finding ways around any GPA requirements.

http://espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/...ranscript.html

Why would you cite a story from 20 years ago, involving a SINGLE player, who DID NOT recieve a diploma to support your claim? Anyway, I'm not going to win with you... Should we rely on recent "news articles" to make such sweeping generalizations as to what kind of people WSU recruits? Or should we look at the "bigger picture"?

[Rlh04d]

Why would you cite a story from 20 years ago, involving a SINGLE player, who DID NOT recieve a diploma to support your claim? Anyway, I'm not going to win with you... Should we rely on recent "news articles" to make such sweeping generalizations as to what kind of people WSU recruits? Or should we look at the "bigger picture"?

Sweeping generalizations? You're making the argument that the poor private schools are at such a terrible disadvantage by not being able to recruit the oh-so-stupid players that public universities can. Why, that sounds like ... a sweeping generalization based off one single story from years ago.

Yes, I'm sure Kevin Ross is not at all indicative of the educational standards private schools put on their student-athletes. You know, I bet he just slipped through the cracks. Maybe none of his professors realized he was illiterate? That gets missed all the time at a university. That "single player" would not have come to light either if he hadn't brought the fact out himself. That's what happens with college athletics ... cheating is rampant, and no one gets caught because the people that have the evidence benefited from the cheating. But no, I'm sure Creighton cleaned up their act and they only accept the highest quality student-athletes now who are able to meet their GPA requirements, and there couldn't possibly be an illiterate player on their roster right now ... just because they allowed it without getting caught in the past, clearly not getting caught again means they're not still doing it. It's so obvious now. I'm sure being a private university doesn't make it even easier for them to let inferior "student-athletes" "slip through the cracks."

So you can brush it under the rug and pretend like it's an aberration if you like, but that only goes to prove that you aren't interested in having any real discussion, you're just on here to attack WSU over and over again until someone in charge finally gets pissed off and bans you. You've blatantly shown your true colors in this thread and I hope you will no longer be tolerated in participating here. I'm done with you either way, troll. Bye now.

[shockmonster]

I'm not sure why it is so important for someone to come on here and defend Creighton. You did state or imply that private schools don't recruit juco players because they have academic problems. You also implied that WSU recruits jucos who are deficient in the classroom on a regular basis and impuned their character. If you look at Marquette, they have recruited a number of Top juco players in the recent past who were Top Juco All Americans. I can guarantee you that those Marquette players didn't go to juco because they were top notch students.

[Rlh04d]

shockkansas has less than 90 posts. Let's look at some of those:

Kharma? I doubt it, Fever is an ass to so many people, kharma could not keep up with him. I didn't mean to "imply" academics was the reason, I meant to "state as fact" academics is the reason lots of schools can't take JUCOS like WSU and KSU. I'm not comparing Creighton to Harvard, I'm just saying you gotta have a 2.75 GPA to transfer there. If Carl Hall had a 2.75 at his Georgia CC, do you think he would have transfered to a Florida CC, just to avoid a test?

Should we rely on recent "news articles" to make such sweeping generalizations as to what kind of people WSU recruits?

would think entrance/transfer requirements would hamper several schools from taking many Juco guys. Lets face it, lots of these guys went Juco, not because they didn't have D1 skills, but because they didn't get much more than their name right on the ACT.

Heck, the guy is a god at WSU, and has yet to win a single NCAA Tourney game in 5 years. Sorry, BCS schools won’t settle for making the tourney every 6 years, and then losing to a school from a lesser conference. Especially a conference below the MVC. BCS coaches get fired for Marshall’s performance. Marshall gets a parade. Why would he leave? It’s crazy that Marshall even got mentioned in this article. He, after 1 NCAA win in 8 tries is actually mentioned in the same article as coaches from lesser conferences taking teams to the Final 4 and Championship Game

Or... WSU players taunting the crowd after an improbable victory.

You are probably right, Carl Hall was just gesturing "thank you, thank you!" And the rest of the Valley is just jealous of the Shocks sustained dominance in St. Louis.

I've got a feeling about Kung Wu, he's a bigot/racist.

You are welcome. Please feel free to add your own "worthless insider perspective". Do you really see Stutz in the NBA?

No, the "sky is not falling in Manhattan". Bleed yellow, football survived, and actually thrived, at KSU because we are very different from WSU. KSU alums will not allow KSU football to die. WSU... no one cared. It's gone. Big of you, fan of a school with no football, to think KSU would lose basketball. Funny.

Personally, I wouldn't dare make a joke about that poor WSU student found strangled in the Flicker.

Fev... I love your avatar. Bill Walker was awesome. Reminded me a lot of Jamar Howard, only with NBA skills and athleticism. Fun while it lasted I guess.

I have to laugh at shocker fan bad mouthing the college atmosphere in Manhattan. Where exactly is the college atmosphere at WSU, the Field House? Kirbys? Back in the day there was the College Inn, Cedars, Flicker... all gone. Oh, and you don't want to compare crime stats.

Face it, over the last several years, KSU has OWNED WSU. Doesn't matter, here, there, Africa... We own the Shocks.

In recent history, KSU has dominated the Shocks.

Yeah, I'm sure the whole staff and team is reading your nonsense. HEAVY SARCASM Your collective self-importance is funny.

Wow fever, have a few to many at the game and come home all belligerent? Since you make fun of farmers, I assume you don't eat? Just kidding, actually I assume you are obese. KSU is nothing? Really? I suppose that is why no one outside of Wichita has heard of it... oh wait that is WSU. Never mind. One thing Shockers don't have to worry about this year: Band Wagon Fans. Unless it is band wagon to bag on your team like goes on here. OH! One more thing, what was that giant sucking sound coming from Eck? Was that the Shocker dugout, or the sound of a SWEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

14 zip to Nebraska?!? Haha. Of course, Nebraska is no slouch, they are afterall 10th in the Big 12! Maybe Gene the stalker was saving his pitching staff for 4-20, when the Shocks finally play a team with an RPI. Haha. You may have won a world series 20+ years ago, but your program sucks now, and shows no sign of improving. One of these days the likes of Bethany College is gonna beat you.

Personally, I think Shocker fan gave up the right to call Cat fans bandwagon, when you all cancelled football. Both programs struggled with mediocrity and losing money. WSU pulled the plug, fans baled off. KSU buckled down, turned it around, and enjoyed the Decade of Dominance. Which fans are bandwagon?

Every single WSU student gets tickets as part of fees, yet a very small student section is rarely filled by students. You still have the nerve to bag on big 12 fan bases! Just because you are in the largest city in the state, with tons of "blue hairs" in seats, does not make you special. Go to a big 12 game with more students than blue hairs, you will see the difference.

Here is an interesting document: http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/s..._Monograph.pdf Wichita State is mentioned 3x

You guys are funny. Nobody has been squashed. KSU students reach into their pockets and pay for BBall tickets, WSU students get them as part of their mandatory fees. Yet KSU student section is way better than WSU. KSU students go home for Christmas break. WSU students are home. (except those from the middle east) A few WSU fans apparantly drive into town. The majority of KSU fans make long trips for each game. Football is a 6 game commitment. Basketball is 17 games. But do WSU fans want to talk about maintaining football? Afterall, "fan apathy" is what killed WSU football.

Fever [...] What you lack in intellect, you make up for in rudeness and arrogance. Perhaps you've spent too much time in jersey.

Exactly at what point does this troll get banned?