In MT's head....

[KC Shox]

Nice article

http://www.kansas.com/2013/04/05/2748197/turgeon-will-have-his-eye-on-shockers.html

[ShockerFever]

Nice article

http://www.kansas.com/2013/04/05/274...-shockers.html

Agreed.

Those who have bashed MT lately on here should probably feel pretty dumb right about now.

[pinstripers]

no, not really

[Kung Wu]

no, not really

This Final Four is analogous to the story of Easter. When the Shox made the F4, all of HCMT's coaching faux pas (real or perceived), our misjudgments and overly harsh criticisms as fans about players and coaches and staff past and present, and all mistakes by players past and present; have been washed away.

You only have to realize the pettiness of holding on to past negativity and how small it is in comparison to where we're at now. And embrace the bright future with open arms.

[ripemupshocks]

I have a question. Something I've wondered about for some time now. I've read numerous posts here on ShockerNet over the years stating 3G doesn't come here without MT being here first. How does anyone know that? Has 3G said that? I always thought it was things like WSU's history, fan base, arena, pay scale, conference, Jim Schaus, and Doug Elgin that made 3G want the job. If there's an article where 3G said he came here because MT was here first, please point me in the right direction. I'd like to read it.

In my opinion, to state MT was the driver for 3G is very condescending toward 3G, and very demeaning of the great history and many accomplishments of the basketball program. MT came here because he thought he could win here. And he thought he could win here for the reasons I listed above, which are the same reasons 3G came here. And keep in mind, MT didn't leave the program in the best shape. MT didn't hand 3G an instant winner. 3G actually had to do some work.

Personally, I'd like to think 3G took the job at WSU not because of some previous coach, but rather because he looked at the big picture, and believed WSU's history, fan base, arena, pay scale, and conference, made WSU a huge step-up from where he was at.

Like I said, if there's an article where 3G gives the credit to MT, instead of everything we spent 100 years building before he got here, please post the link. I will stand corrected.

[jdmee]

I have a question. Something I've wondered about for some time now. I've read numerous posts here on ShockerNet over the years stating 3G doesn't come here without MT being here first. How does anyone know that? Has 3G said that? I always thought it was things like WSU's history, fan base, arena, pay scale, conference, Jim Schaus, and Doug Elgin that made 3G want the job. If there's an article where 3G said he came here because MT was here first, please point me in the right direction. I'd like to read it.

In my opinion, to state MT was the driver for 3G is very condescending toward 3G, and very demeaning of the great history and many accomplishments of the basketball program. MT came here because he thought he could win here. And he thought he could win here for the reasons I listed above, which are the same reasons 3G came here. And keep in mind, MT didn't leave the program in the best shape. MT didn't hand 3G an instant winner. 3G actually had to do some work.

Personally, I'd like to think 3G took the job at WSU not because of some previous coach, but rather because he looked at the big picture, and believed WSU's history, fan base, arena, pay scale, and conference, made WSU a huge step-up from where he was at.

Like I said, if there's an article where 3G gives the credit to MT, instead of everything we spent 100 years building before he got here, please post the link. I will stand corrected.

It's more about what MT did for the program and less about the man. Before MT we were the Evansville. We were the Drake. We were the welcome to Thursday. MT did turn this program around. If instead of MT doing this it was Coach Jim Bob Joe Blow we would be talking about coach JBJB. If program was still in the state it was in before MT, 3G would not be at WSU. Do you think 3G would have came to WSU if we were a consistent sub .500 Valley team?

MT did leave the program in better shape then when got here, in that way MT is so much better than Folger.

[SubGod22]

Agreed.

Those who have bashed MT lately on here should probably feel pretty dumb right about now.

Why?

[Dan]

Fogler was marginal at wsu and was marginal after he left. MT was what we needed at the time and he put us back on the map.

[shockmonster]

Fogler was marginal at wsu and was marginal after he left. MT was what we needed at the time and he put us back on the map.

Yes, Fogler came when the program had some very good talent. He was a good game coach but he got away when the getting was good after only 3 years (he should have won). MT came at a very low point and built up the program to a good level. He may have stayed but with the combination of the team with the drop into the abyss at the end of the year, he thought that he had done as much as he was capable of which he was probably right. Enter Gregg Marshall who is the type of coach who can build the program and I think sustain it at a high level. Turgeon was the right man for the job in 2000 but not in 2007. GM was the right man to take the program in 2007, he is the right man now, and if he sticks with it, I think that he can approach the status of Ralph Miller's legend before he's done.

[rrshock]

Depending on this weekend, he might have reached Ralph Miller status already in some minds.

[ripemupshocks]

I have a question. Something I've wondered about for some time now. I've read numerous posts here on ShockerNet over the years stating 3G doesn't come here without MT being here first. How does anyone know that? Has 3G said that? I always thought it was things like WSU's history, fan base, arena, pay scale, conference, Jim Schaus, and Doug Elgin that made 3G want the job. If there's an article where 3G said he came here because MT was here first, please point me in the right direction. I'd like to read it.

In my opinion, to state MT was the driver for 3G is very condescending toward 3G, and very demeaning of the great history and many accomplishments of the basketball program. MT came here because he thought he could win here. And he thought he could win here for the reasons I listed above, which are the same reasons 3G came here. And keep in mind, MT didn't leave the program in the best shape. MT didn't hand 3G an instant winner. 3G actually had to do some work.

Personally, I'd like to think 3G took the job at WSU not because of some previous coach, but rather because he looked at the big picture, and believed WSU's history, fan base, arena, pay scale, and conference, made WSU a huge step-up from where he was at.

Like I said, if there's an article where 3G gives the credit to MT, instead of everything we spent 100 years building before he got here, please post the link. I will stand corrected.

It's more about what MT did for the program and less about the man. Before MT we were the Evansville. We were the Drake. We were the welcome to Thursday. MT did turn this program around. If instead of MT doing this it was Coach Jim Bob Joe Blow we would be talking about coach JBJB. If program was still in the state it was in before MT, 3G would not be at WSU. Do you think 3G would have came to WSU if we were a consistent sub .500 Valley team?

MT did leave the program in better shape then when got here, in that way MT is so much better than Folger.

No kidding! Wow! It's not about the man or his name, but rather about his accomplishments. How insightful. Thanks for bringing me up to speed. I do however find it very telling that you did not feel the need to point that out to other posters who have referred to the previous head coach as Mark Turgeon, or MT for short. And all the while, you repeatedly refer to the previous coach as MT. I think that's called having your cake and eating it too. Oh well, JBJB it is.

Since you have choosen to ignore virtually my entire post (perhaps reading comprehension is not your strong suit), let me rephrase the question. Do you really want to be so insulting to 3G as to claim he was so absolutely shallow and lacking in itelligence, that he made the decision to come to WSU simply because the previous head coach (you know, JBJB), had four good seasons at WSU? I don't think so. I think 3G was well aware of all issues surrounding the WSU job. Including, but not limited too, WSU's basketball history (which 3G has mentioned on numerous occasions), which dates to 1905. WSU's great past players (which 3G has mentioned on numerous occasions), dating back to at least WSU's first All American in 1927. The great history of the MVC (which 3G has mentioned on occasion), which includes many National Championships. The great arena (which 3G has mentioned on numerous occasions). The great fan base (which 3G has mentioned on numerous occasions). I'd even be willing to bet 3G was also smart enough to consider the big increase in pay and benefits being offered to him by WSU. Heck I'll bet 3G even had the mental capacity to formulate and opinion about his future boss (Jim Schaus) prior to taking the job.

And how about WSU. Nothing against Winthrop University, but does anyone really believe WSU was not a much, much, much better job than Winthrop. 3G was at Winthrop for nine seasons. He loved Winthrop. And yet he still came to WSU, which he has called a "destination job".

Understand, I have nothing against the previous coach, JBJB, (other than where he went to school). I'm glad he was here, and I'm happy with the wins and the sweet sixteen. But to completely ignore all of the great seasons and great players and great fans that WSU had for 100 seasons before coach JBJB arrived, and act like WSU spent 100 years wollowing around in mediocrity, and thanks to coach JBJB, WSU finally won a basketball game, and that's why 3G came to WSU, is just not reality.

3G was smart enough to consider all the great benefits of the WSU job, including WSU's great history long before coach JBJB arrived. That's why 3G is here. But like I said, if you can find an article giving credit to coach JBJB instead of the issues I have listed above, PLEASE post the link. I will stand corrected.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

with out Schaus there is no Marshall here.

having great history in the 50's and 60's does nothing for our program now. Its something to be proud of YES but miss me with the "oh you should come play for the shockers because we had great teams in the 60's" does nothing for kids in 2013.

Without Schaus and Turgeon by extension WSU was probably not a better job than Winthrop. It took Schaus and Turgeon by extension to get to the level we are now. Which is a level we were once at.

[jocoshock]

I'm stealing this line, but someone described the difference between MT and HCGM as this:

Mark saw what the program wasn't, Gregg sees what the program can be. (or words to that effect)

Mike Kennedy said that in his interview on 810whb last week, but didn't name MT specifically. He said other coaches from blue blood programs came in and eventually looked at WSU and saw what they believed we were not and moved on. Greg saw no limit and focused on what he believed we could be..

[jocoshock]

We had a ceiling with Turgeon ... if not because of Turgeon's ability, then because of his mindset. We don't have that ceiling with Marshall. I think everything turned out best for all involved.

Agreed. Our ceiling was Turgeon's ceiling. Marshall sees no ceiling. We have no ceiling. It's that simple. MT should be admired and respected for helping bring our program back from the living dead.

If there were a Mount Rushmore of Shocker coaches, Miller, Smithson and Marshall would be automatic qualifiers. Turgeon and Fogler would be first ballot inductees.. They deserve credit for what they did while they were here, but M, S and M took this program to the highet levels. Miller put us on the map, the other two built enduring legacies and raised the bar.

Turgeon's biggest mistake, other than his "at this level" mentality was what he himself described in the article. He never learned to enjoy his time here. M, S and M did and are.

[1972Shocker]

IMHO, what turned around our basketball/athletic program was first and foremost the Roundhouse Rennaissance project spearheaded by Jim Schaus. That set the stage for Jim to go out and bring in Mark and then Gregg. We may get Mark even without that, not sure about Gregg and we sure don't keep Gregg unless we keep our facilities top notch.

As far as Shocker coaching hierarchy I would go with Miller, Marshall, Smithson, Turgeon and Fogler. That could easily change in a couple of days. If Gregg stays around he will not doubt pass Ralph at some point.