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  • Question for the shockernet refs

    Serious questions for the posters that also ref games-I'm confused

    What is the general rule that officials are following regarding fouls? It seems very rough inside-guys getting away with some pretty physical play-no calls. Then a seeming touch or light bump foul is called. Why?

    Also, what is the rule for post play fouls? It looks like there is constant fouling and shoving between big men. What makes an official decide to blow the whistle?

    Not bitching-just want to understand

  • #2
    The issue is not the type of foul being called, the issue is consistency. All we want from refs who are in a Top 8 Conference is to make consistent calls throughout the entire game for both sides.

    Like an umpire in baseball. If he's giving a wide corner for one pitcher he'd better be doing it for the other pitcher as well. Hitters may not like it, but as long as the ump is being consistent, then there is no problem.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KC Shox
      The issue is not the type of foul being called, the issue is consistency. All we want from refs who are in a Top 8 Conference is to make consistent calls throughout the entire game for both sides.

      Like an umpire in baseball. If he's giving a wide corner for one pitcher he'd better be doing it for the other pitcher as well. Hitters may not like it, but as long as the ump is being consistent, then there is no problem.
      Well, consistency seems absent in the games I watch.

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      • #4
        I think that we should blame the refs for all of our problems this year.

        You know I have heard that there is a MVC mandate that the officials get Wichita State.
        Let's hope he can hit a D-1 Curve ball!


        "God gave us the ability to reason, not religion" http://www.deism.com/


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Shirley Schmidt
          I think that we should blame the refs for all of our problems this year.

          You know I have heard that there is a MVC mandate that the officials get Wichita State.
          first of all noone is blaming the refs for all our problems.
          Basketball is a physical game. People make contact.
          when people hold, or push, or hit limbs. is when fouls should be called.

          and i agree.
          Consistancy is the key.
          Like
          when that guy jumped all over one of our players.
          then next posession we get called for a lil bump.
          "Coach Marshall,We will be at Creighton at least 15 hours in advance!"
          CGM--->"Hell yea, and we'll beat their ass."

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with you guys the refs call a different game when they are watching the Shocker players.

            The Shox are held to a different standard from everyone else and it needs to stop.

            I am writing an e-mail to Elgin with a link to this thread and others to show him how the fans feel that the officials are terrible.

            I am sure he will be here at the next game sitting in the student section so he can see first hand the manhandling that the Wichita State players are subjected to on a nightly basis by the inept officials.


            Here is a picture of Elgin so you guys will know him......
            Let's hope he can hit a D-1 Curve ball!


            "God gave us the ability to reason, not religion" http://www.deism.com/


            Comment


            • #7
              personally, when calling post play action from the lead position (under the hoop) I let them be a little physical until it causes an advantage for either player. I understand that has alot of grey area, but that is how I see it! The ticky tack stuff up top (tail, or center postions) needs to be discussed in pre-game talks so wach official is on the same page. What I see at alot of games in NCAA is guys wanting to either get noticed or show someone up, not being on the same page as the other in the crew; therfore, making everybody look inconsistent and BAD!

              osterwu:

              Comment


              • #8
                Consistency is a big thing. Also, a lot of it can come down to advantage/disadvantage. Sometimes there are fouls that could be called but the player gets through it and is presented with a wide open look or pass to someone under the basket. Those fouls are often passed on as it didn't really effect anything.

                As far as post play, I know KSHSAA is worried about it getting too physical and have told us to try and crack down on some of it. College is a bit different. There's going to be contact. Especially inside. Both players in the post are pushing eachother around while jockying for position. I think these officials are looking for blatant things.

                One thing to know is that not all contact is a foul. Unfortunately, there is a lot of gray areas when officiating. What warrants a foul call? The higher you get the more contact they can play through so you let some things slide as they don't have an impact on the play.

                Also, angles are the biggest thing. Sometimes, an official just doen't have the positioning to see certain things. That's one reason they use three officials. It creates more angles and lets them focus on certain areas to see more. You'll also see a lot of officials try to talk players out of fouls. I know the head of KSHSAA doesn't like that but a lot of HS officials do it as well. Nobody wants to see a ton of fouls called. But, sometimes you can't help it because the players won't listen. Or they just give you no choice.

                But when it comes down to it, there's no easy answer for your question. There will be more contact allowed inside than out. And more contact when the ball has yet to enter the post compared to win the player has the ball. I'm not sure how the NCAA wants things officiated so I don't know if there are certain things they're told that I'm not aware of.
                Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
                Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
                ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

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                • #9
                  Here's another observation... is it just me, or in the waning seconds of the last couple of games (especially N. Iowa) it seemed like our guys are trying to foul the other team to stop the clock (which is common practice) but it seems like the refs are basically ignoring them unless they basically throw the guy to the ground. I know that this type of foul is technically 'intentional', but isn't this a practice that all teams use in these situations, and why is it so difficult to get the refs to blow a whistle when it seems like earlier in the game they blow them when much less obvious fouls happen?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hutchshox
                    ...I understand that has alot of grey area, but that is how I see it!...
                    I think this is a problem. In hockey both at the NHL level and USA hockey (mainly high school and under) they have let us as offcials know that the rules are not written with a gray area. They are written black and white and any gray area has been put in place by the way officials have called games. They've done a good job reversing the vision refs have shown and I think it's time for other sports to follow suit. I think the NFL has also been trying hard to reverse this trend for the last few years. It leads to more inconsistancy from game to game and official to official when the rules are still the same.

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                    • #11
                      totally disagree with you on that point! There needs to be a grey area in basketball. Black and white does not cut it. Of course the rules state black and white, but if it were called that way everyone from coaches to fans to players, etc... would hate that! games would be hrs. long and ratings would look like the NHL ratings! NFL always has had grey areas and always will. College basketball is way too physical of a game for black and white, so is hockey. They hockey refs don't call every single grab, hold, et... so why is bball any different. Again it goes back on the refs of the game in question. Good communication between officials and good communication with the players and coaches prior to the game would cut down on alot of inconsistent games. If coaches and players are told how the refs are going to call a game they can coach and play accordingly, as long as the officials keep their word!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Actually in hockey they have tried, and started to call every grab, hook, and hold at the top level of the game. It's lead to increase scoring and a steady rise in ratings and attendence since the lockout ended. At first in the nhl the games did last longers, but the players adjusted. When the nfl clarified how they wanted calls to be against roughing the quarterback and horse coller tackels the players have adjusted. I don't believe that's a valid arguement as the players will adjust. If SIU had 7-8 players fould out a game they would adjust or they'd never be succesful, but because refs don't want to do that to a team they adjust to their style of play which is unfair to their opponents. I'm sure just like most any other sports the rulebook for basketball is written to try and prevent a gray area, but officials don't always follow the rules because of their personal beliefs.

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                        • #13
                          I still contend that a black and white officiated basketball game would be extremely boring, but that is what we have been seeing lately anyway. We can agree to disagree my friend! osterwu:

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                          • #14
                            I don't officiate the other sports so I can't speak to that. But I don't know how you "black and white" everything in basketball. Again, not all contact is a foul. If you want it to be, no matter how the players adjust there's going to be more fouls and longer games.
                            Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                            RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                            Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
                            Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                            Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
                            ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                            Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                            MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Where's Dr. Naismith's original rules? I seem to recall an excerpt floating around. How do you think that would flow today?

                              I'll hang up & listen.

                              Go Shocks!!!!
                              “Losers Average Losers.” ― Paul Tudor Jones

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