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How has Marshall led us so far? One word: metagaming.

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  • How has Marshall led us so far? One word: metagaming.

    Metagaming: Knowing the opponent and how to counter them. If you can counter what you expect your opponent will do, you can beat them even if they are "better."

    Look at any statistical website, and you'll see the Shockers are still behind Pitt, Ohio State, and Gonzaga. Statistics would argue that they were "better teams." Our defense isn't statistically better, and our offense doesn't frighten our opponents like some do. But what we have done is counter our opponents strengths, and attacked their weaknesses. THAT is what we have excelled at in the tournament. That is why we have led every game by double digits, and never been more than 8 points behind a team.

    Imagine back in the day when the arm bar was first discovered. The guys that had that one move in their sleeves could beat anyone, and they could break arms easily without fear of a counter. Suddenly, everyone was learning how to pull off an arm bar so that they could win fights. When the counter was developed, the people that could counter that move became the kings of fighters until they were countered. These guys weren't necessarily better than their opponents, but they exploited their opponents reliance on their moves so well they dominated.

    Back to basketball. We don't do any one thing super well, except rebound and play quality defense. We don't have a crazy good press or the best shooters. We don't have the best athletes or a superstar player. What we have is versatility. Does your team's best player rely on speed to blow by defenders? Meet Demetric Williams with Carl Hall hedging on screens. Do you play solid defense and efficient offense, but have a tendency to send opponents to the line? We'll draw fouls all day. Do you have a bunch of quick guards but no true post presence? We'll give the ball to Carl Hall and let him go at you.

    Basically, we've found our opponents weakness in every game. Against Pittsburgh, we were able to get to the line and force them into hard shots. Against Gonzaga, we stretched the defense with 3PT shooting. We threw the ball inside against La Salle, and we Ohio State to beat us with their jump shots. In each case, we found a weakness and executed our gameplan to a victory.

    Louisville is a tougher match-up. If you go by stats, they are the better team. They have the better defense, and the better offense. They've played and beaten better teams. But we haven't been beating teams by playing to their strengths. We've been winning because we have found chinks in the armor of every team we've faced. If we can do the same against Louisville, we can beat them.

  • #2
    How is our free throw defense holding up?

    Also, have we met your expectations this year, in your opinion?
    Deuces Valley.
    ... No really, deuces.
    ________________
    "Enjoy the ride."

    - a smart man

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    • #3
      As lopsided as the La Salle victory was, that was a game that was won before the players ever took the floor. That victory was gameplanned to a "T."

      I knew that, after that game, the Marshall "coaching rumors" would only heat up. The man is one of the best basketball coaches in the nation, and the nation is finally starting to realize it.
      The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.

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      • #4
        Louisville is going to be a very tough matchup in that Coach Pitino isn't as lazy as other coaches we've seen that have had more "talented" rosters. I don't expect him to simply play his game and think they're going to beat us without having to particularly scout us.

        I think the coaching matchup is going to be very interesting between these two. I fully expect Louisville to actually gameplan for us as a serious threat.
        Originally posted by BleacherReport
        Fred VanVleet on Shockers' 3-Pt Shooting Confidence -- ' Honestly, I just tell these guys to let their nuts hang.'

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ShockerFever View Post
          How is our free throw defense holding up?

          Also, have we met your expectations this year, in your opinion?
          Why do you always go into to troll mode when you see one of my posts? It does nothing good for you or the Shockernet community. I did not title the thread "HEY SHOCKERFEVER, please come derail a thread and make it about your personal grudges!" Good thing too, that probably wouldn't fit in the title box.

          In all seriousness though, the one thing that has hurt us is our opponents getting to the line. Both Gonzaga and Ohio State had runs sparked with FTs. I think Ohio State cut our 20 point lead down to 9 points without making a single FG.

          Obviously we've met expectations. But still, we came awfully close to missing this opportunity entirely. From what I've heard, our game against Pitt was supposed to be a 7-10 or 6-11 game that got changed to a 8-9 game to meet NCAA regulations regarding rematches with conference foes. While virtually every bracket had us in, we were in a lot of "Last Four In" lists despite our final ranking. When we lost 3 games in a row, we definitely were starting to risk missing the tournament.
          Last edited by CBB_Fan; April 3, 2013, 12:35 AM.

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          • #6
            n/m
            Last edited by Awesome Sauce Malone; April 2, 2013, 11:57 PM. Reason: you know what nevermind

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            • #7
              The Shox are very versatile. They can go big, they can go small, they can go quick, they can go "all offense", they can go "all defense". The depth and versatility of the various lineups makes the Shox a pretty tough team to scout. The 14/28 against Gonzaga is probably discouraging zone.

              Marshall has outcoached a lot of coaches. A lot of very good coaches. Marshall has the schemes and players to present a lot of different looks, depending on what he's up against. I think the Shox have made it this far because of talent, depth, versatility, and coaching. It's not luck and it's not talent in the way most people evaluate talent. It's talent at beiong able to do a variety of things that are successful on the basketball court - and the ability to use that talent to play different games against different teams.

              There's something the media is not recognizing. It's called "frustration". When a team can't do what they're used to on offense and has to "settle" for bad choices, they get frustrated. That shows up on both ends of the court. I think that's a big factor in the Shox success this year.

              The Ohio State board was flooded with comments about the bad shot selection the OSU players were taking. The fans and the media think OSU had an off night. The players for OSU were probably also wondering why they were taking nothing but bad or questionable shots, but they knew that's all they were getting. Frustration on O leads to breakdowns on D. That's been the Shox "secret weapon" in my opinion.
              The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
              We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Aargh View Post
                The fans and the media think OSU had an off night.
                Lots of teams have off nights against us, apparently.
                Originally posted by BleacherReport
                Fred VanVleet on Shockers' 3-Pt Shooting Confidence -- ' Honestly, I just tell these guys to let their nuts hang.'

                Comment


                • #9
                  This isn't really the place for this, but just as a random point: Marshall now has the third most wins ever at WSU, and will almost certainly move into second all-time next season (needs 16 wins to tie, if we lose our next game).

                  He also has the fourth highest winning percentage in Shocker history at 68% ... and the highest since 1933.

                  Pretty tremendous accomplishments considering the state of the program he walked into that first season.

                  Last four years are nearly 78%. Pretty sure that's the second best four year stretch in Shocker history.
                  Last edited by Rlh04d; April 3, 2013, 12:29 AM.
                  Originally posted by BleacherReport
                  Fred VanVleet on Shockers' 3-Pt Shooting Confidence -- ' Honestly, I just tell these guys to let their nuts hang.'

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CBB_Fan View Post
                    Why do you always go into to troll mode when you see one of my posts? It does nothing good for you or the Shockernet community. I did not title the thread "HEY SHOCKERFEVER, please come derail a thread and make it about your personal grudges!" Good thing too, that probably wouldn't fit in the title box.

                    In all seriousness though, the one thing that has hurt us is our opponents getting to the line. Both Gonzaga and Ohio State had runs sparked with FTs I think Ohio State cut our 20 point lead down to 9 points without making a single FG.

                    Obviously we've met expectations. But still, we came awfully close to missing this opportunity entirely. From what I've heard, our game against Pitt was supposed to be a 7-10 or 6-11 game that got changed to a 8-9 game to meet NCAA regulations regarding rematches with conference foes. While virtually every bracket had us in, we were in a lot of "Last Four In" lists despite our final ranking. When we lost 3 games in a row, we definitely were starting to risk missing the tournament.
                    ShockerFever is an idiot, douche bag, loser.
                    Phi Alpha

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Speed View Post
                      ShockerFever is an idiot, douche bag, loser.
                      Interesting. I haven't seen you in a while. Strange you would pick today to come back
                      People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. -Isaac Asimov

                      Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded
                      Who else posts fake **** all day in order to maintain the acrimony? Wingnuts, that's who.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Speed View Post
                        ShockerFever is an idiot, douche bag, loser.
                        And that's what you save your first post in over a week for?

                        Somebody didn't get anything from the Easter Bunny this year.. :cry:
                        Deuces Valley.
                        ... No really, deuces.
                        ________________
                        "Enjoy the ride."

                        - a smart man

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We should do this metagaming thing against Evansville.
                          "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post
                            We should do this metagaming thing against Evansville.
                            We tried. The problem is that league opponents are much harder to try and counter. Too much familiarity. They know your counters, the counter-counters to your counters, and so on. The advantage of the tournament is that you really don't have any prior game experience with the teams you play, so it is all based on what your coach can do with limited time on their hands. Marshall has done a great job of capitalizing on this.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CBB_Fan View Post
                              Metagaming: Knowing the opponent and how to counter them. If you can counter what you expect your opponent will do, you can beat them even if they are "better."
                              Cool post.

                              I think that's a part of what makes HC3GM special, but what's equally important is being able to adjust by having a strong sense of situational awareness and having the athletes to make those adjustments. And lastly, HC3GM learns from his mistakes instead of stubbornly tin cupping his way through the same old lunacy. Is there any doubt he has gotten better and better just in his time here at WSU?

                              In Game Adjustments: Many times this year we have been beaten the first half due to having a game plan that didn't pan out, just to turn around and lay it on the second half. The initial game plan rarely, if ever, goes EXACTLY as intended (though they sure have been working out in the tournament, just like you indicated). So if it breaks down too much you MUST adjust. We got caught with our pants down a couple times this year when we dug a hole too big before making those adjustments, but that's just the coach having an off night.

                              More often than not the in game adjustments have been excellent and the situational substitutions have been solid.

                              Weapons Galore: Another key aspect to what makes WSU great is that we have the athletes to actually make the necessary adjustments. For example when we are down by 6 with 1:30 to go and we MUST get a defensive stop, putting in a 7 foot defensive shot blocking stud seems obvious; but it's the very fact that you have one that let's you try that game changing move! Without having all those weapons in your arsenal you severely limit your options. HC3GM has done such an awesome job of recruiting that he has a full complement of weapons to draw on. And they, for the most part, do what they do individually really well.
                              Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!

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