Please don't let this happen or we need out MVC ASAP

[AndShock]

We need out of the MVC ASAP just because of the fact that UMKC is even being looked at. Might as well look at Newman and Friends also.

[The Mad Hatter]

I'm guessing that UMKC is getting an interview in large part to lower fan expectations so that whoever is added will seem good compared to the named alternatives.

[SubGod22]

We're not leaving the MVC unless the MWC or the Conference to be named later decide on nonfootball schools being acceptable. I'm surprised UMKC is even getting a look, but nobody has to worry about them getting in. I'd be shocked if even one president would vote for them. Perhaps Drake so they'd have someone to beat up on... But nobody else

[Rlh04d]

I like what you're saying and IMO, this would be the best thing for both conferences.

A couple of items. I fully expect St Louis and Dayton to be gone which would make the move of the A-10 into the Valley more likely than if they were to stay in the A-10. I know LaSalle was quite good this year, however, they have a losing overall record for both 10 and 15 year periods including 11 losing seasons over the 15 year period. GW would be better choice with an additional market and they are have about a 70 point higher winning percentage over the last 10 years. Given this, it would make for a 14 team league, but still with 2 divisions.

Another reason to go A-10 into the Valley is that there is more dead weight currently in the A-10. The A-10 has had 4 teams with losing records over the last 10 years compared to the Valley's 2 (3 A-10 teams have the lowest winning % of the 2 conferences). The remaining A-10 teams have 4 teams, including newcomers VCU and George Mason, that each have once made at least the S 16 (4 total) in the last 15 years. The Valley has 5 teams that have made at least the S16 7 times in that period.

If there was a move into the A-10, IN St is an interesting choice. They have the second worst winning % in the Valley over both the 10 and 15 year periods. Ill St and MSU have been much better overall, 80 and 100 points higher over the last 10 years.

I agree with most of that. I didn't mention it there, but my main reason for thinking the MVC cannibalizing the A-10 is possible is to ditch the A-10's dead-weight. Also, the Valley has way more history.

And you're right about Indiana State ... I just value them a lot higher than Illinois State in general. Granted, most of that's probably because of Bird.

Good point about George Washington over La Salle.

As far as I'm concerned, this conference would be on almost even footing with the new Big East or the MWC. You'd have three programs that have made the Final Four in the last decade and something like 13 Sweet 16 or better runs.

I just don't see the point of either the MVC or A-10 trying to pick up the pieces individually. Two mediocre conferences or one very good conference? Combined we would make FAR more money than the two individually put together.

I just hate how the MVC has no forward-thinking ability. We are so stuck in the 70s and 80s in how this conference views the sport. Television drives this sport. SIU fans are freaking out over how the extra $100k a year they're going to get from WSU's tourney run is going to save their basketball program ... $100k a year? Creighton is about to make $3.5 MILLION a year in the Big East's TV deal. Every move from here on out needs to be done as part of a comprehensive plan to modernize the MVC into a televised conference. At this point, do we seriously think we're even going to keep Arch Madness on CBS? There is no program that we can get to replace Creighton that will give us a TV deal ... because Creighton didn't do it, and whoever we get is going to be a downgrade from them. The ONLY thing that will modernize the MVC is a merger between the MVC and the A-10.

Without that, Wichita State has to leave this conference.

[SubGod22]

THE SKY IS FALLING........

[rjl]

Welp, I could walk from my house to a WSU game this year.

[ValpoTX]

This is a nightmare scenario. I would have been a little disappointed at the thought of ORU, but UMKC makes me sick to my stomach. Valpo is the only one of those schools that are even close to decent, but they're not even close to the same level as Belmont or Murray State. God help us.

Since one of our posters linked your site on our Valpo Forum, I thought that I would read what your group was saying about pending MVC moves. I really don't see the MVC adding Loyola, UIC, or UMKC. It would not make any sense to add programs that don't do anything in the main revenue sport you offer. Yes, they are in good markets, but they are not even close to the main player in their market. I also don't see Valpo joining the MVC unless we commit to a timetable in regards to the facilities improvements included in our 10-20 year athletics plan.

I also had to respond to your comment about Murray State and Belmont. We beat Murray at their place this year, and will beat them at home next year. Belmont's record was majorly inflated by some crappy OVC teams, and I think that we would have beaten them as well. They have had more NCAA appearances recently, but that was in the Atlantic Sun and OVC, similar to when we made 7 appearances in a 9 year period a few years ago in the Summit/Mid-Con

[Perezident]

I agree with most of that. I didn't mention it there, but my main reason for thinking the MVC cannibalizing the A-10 is possible is to ditch the A-10's dead-weight. Also, the Valley has way more history.

And you're right about Indiana State ... I just value them a lot higher than Illinois State in general. Granted, most of that's probably because of Bird.

Good point about George Washington over La Salle.

As far as I'm concerned, this conference would be on almost even footing with the new Big East or the MWC. You'd have three programs that have made the Final Four in the last decade and something like 13 Sweet 16 or better runs.

I just don't see the point of either the MVC or A-10 trying to pick up the pieces individually. Two mediocre conferences or one very good conference? Combined we would make FAR more money than the two individually put together.

I just hate how the MVC has no forward-thinking ability. We are so stuck in the 70s and 80s in how this conference views the sport. Television drives this sport. SIU fans are freaking out over how the extra $100k a year they're going to get from WSU's tourney run is going to save their basketball program ... $100k a year? Creighton is about to make $3.5 MILLION a year in the Big East's TV deal. Every move from here on out needs to be done as part of a comprehensive plan to modernize the MVC into a televised conference. At this point, do we seriously think we're even going to keep Arch Madness on CBS? There is no program that we can get to replace Creighton that will give us a TV deal ... because Creighton didn't do it, and whoever we get is going to be a downgrade from them. The ONLY thing that will modernize the MVC is a merger between the MVC and the A-10.

Without that, Wichita State has to leave this conference.

I love this fantasy scenario of a bunch of good A-10 teams wanting to join the Valley, but really!? The A-10 currently plays in large east coast markets with their conference tournament at the new Barclays Center. There is no conceivable reason for any of them to want to jump to a midwest conference that just lost one of it's best members. Sure we have history in the Valley, but if one thing is apparent in the shifting college athletic environment it's that history don't mean squat, only dollars matter.

I hope we either get a solid program like Belmont or else just hold at 9 for the foreseeable future. WSU should be aggressively exploring a move, imho, not wait for that tool and his band of lackeys at the MVC head office to decide our future.

[ShockTalk]

I love this fantasy scenario of a bunch of good A-10 teams wanting to join the Valley, but really!? The A-10 currently plays in large east coast markets with their conference tournament at the new Barclays Center. There is no conceivable reason for any of them to want to jump to a midwest conference that just lost one of it's best members. Sure we have history in the Valley, but if one thing is apparent in the shifting college athletic environment it's that history don't mean squat, only dollars matter.

I hope we either get a solid program like Belmont or else just hold at 9 for the foreseeable future. WSU should be aggressively exploring a move, imho, not wait for that tool and his band of lackeys at the MVC head office to decide our future.

Really? Atl-10 losing Temple, Butler, Xavier, Charlotte and probably St. Louis, Dayton, and UMass in the future and your concerned about the Valley losing 1 team that doesn't have the history or importance of Temple, Butler, or Xavier.

[Perezident]

I'm not sure what your point is. What exactly would be the incentive for A-10 teams to move to the MVC? If one conference was to cannibalize the other I'm afraid you've got it backwards. For evidence just look at how this thread began, the MVC is a conference considering adding UMKC, LoC, or UIC.... We are clearly not in a position of power, and haven't been for about four decades. Buy hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't dream. Maybe the Big 10 will invite us to join!

[shockmonster]

Really? Atl-10 losing Temple, Butler, Xavier, Charlotte and probably St. Louis, Dayton, and UMass in the future and your concerned about the Valley losing 1 team that doesn't have the history or importance of Temple, Butler, or Xavier.

Where is it reported that St. Louis and Dayton are going anywhere? I saw that they would go to the NBE next year but if they are going, why not this year (with Xavier and Butler)?

[Rlh04d]

I'm not sure what your point is. What exactly would be the incentive for A-10 teams to move to the MVC? If one conference was to cannibalize the other I'm afraid you've got it backwards. For evidence just look at how this thread began, the MVC is a conference considering adding UMKC, LoC, or UIC.... We are clearly not in a position of power, and haven't been for about four decades. Buy hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't dream. Maybe the Big 10 will invite us to join!

As I said, I don't really care which conference consumes the other. I only suggested the Valley for historical purposes.

It doesn't matter what name the conference has. The goal should be to have the top teams from each conference in the same conference. The A-10 wouldn't lose their east coast markets in this plan ... we can still have the conference tournament in the east coast, I could care less. What IS important is that the A-10 just lost almost all of their major programs. Butler and Xavier are gone, with Saint Louis and Dayton leaving. Whatever status they had is gone ... they're in the same boat we are. The MVC and the A-10 are both mediocre, top-heavy conferences now. Now they can either both become one-bid conferences, or they can merge together and be better than either would be on their own. THAT is the point. Neither of us is in a position of power anymore.

I'm entirely fine with Wichita State and the top MVC programs jumping to the A-10 as well. As I said, the conferences don't matter. It's getting all of the best teams available into one conference for television and RPI purposes that is important.

[Rlh04d]

THE SKY IS FALLING........

The sky isn't falling. The Valley would continue forever.

But there's only one hope for Wichita State to go to the next level, and it's not replacing Creighton with a decent midwest team. It's doing whatever is required to get a real television deal. If we want to maintain the status quo ... well, even that isn't going to happen, because the Valley and our RPI is about to take a hit.

This isn't a doomsday scenario. If the MVC just replaces Creighton with an inferior team, we'll keep on. We'll have a good team. But we're also going to be a one-bid conference. Eventually that might drive Marshall away if he feels like he won't have a shot at an at-large NCAA bid -- which granted we've just helped tremendously with this run. We have an opportunity right now to take a big step up ... or we can just concentrate on the status quo. That's what the Valley's done for decades ... the sky hasn't been falling in doing so, but the conference has gotten worse and will continue to do so. And we'll sit around and watch all of these other programs around us move up to the next level while we sit back and be conservative and wait for the perfect opportunity that continues to never happen. We'll continue to be excited about an extra $100k here and there while others gets multi-million dollar TV contracts.

[SubGod22]

I know the sky isn't falling. But many on here act like it is. I find it kind of amusing, but at the same time kind of annoying.

[SubGod22]

Where is it reported that St. Louis and Dayton are going anywhere? I saw that they would go to the NBE next year but if they are going, why not this year (with Xavier and Butler)?

It's cheaper for them to wait.