Gregg Marshall > Mark Turgeon

[Rlh04d]

I thought Turgeon was a very good coach. I'll always be grateful to him for what he did here.

However, I think there is something very funny about Turgeon abandoning the program because he thought it was too small for him ... and he's coaching in the NIT while Marshall has us in the Elite 8. Marshall has been far more successful at the "little mid major" than Turgeon has been at his ACC program.

I hope that fact isn't lost on Marshall. The grass usually isn't greener on the other side. The money might be better, but really ... there's no reason you can't have just as much success here as you can there. And I believe Turgeon is only making $1.9 million at Maryland. Not sure where things even out in extra compensation between the two ... but Turgeon isn't making much more money.

End of the day ... maybe Wichita State wasn't too small for Mark Turgeon. Maybe Turgeon was too small for Wichita State.

[fastbow]

4-8

Bad news. I just did the math, and even if we win the title this year, Marshall will still have a losing record in the NCAAs.

Guess we'll have to go back next year to get it above .500. Oh darn.

[TurFin]

Congratulations...There isn't a fan base in the country that deserves this more.

Sorry to see some have never grown up and still can't see the forest from the trees.

[SubGod22]

Congratulations...There isn't a fan base in the country that deserves this more.

Sorry to see some have never grown up and still can't see the forest from the trees.

Turgeon brought it on himself with the way he left. MOST coaches wouldn't do that and I expected more out of him. That and the whole "at this level" BS. He's the only thing that held him back in his time in Wichita.

[Dan]

Turgeon may have put his foot in his mouth but it was a different prgram when he was here. He built it up but never really thought of it as a long term job. So be it, thanks to Turg we were able to lure in a better coach, better recruiter and take it to new heights.

[ShockerPrez]

The difference will be that Marshall will repeat the process for many more years.

[Kung Wu]

I thought Turgeon was a very good coach. I'll always be grateful to him for what he did here.

However, I think there is something very funny about Turgeon abandoning the program because he thought it was too small for him ... and he's coaching in the NIT while Marshall has us in the Elite 8. Marshall has been far more successful at the "little mid major" than Turgeon has been at his ACC program.

I hope that fact isn't lost on Marshall. The grass usually isn't greener on the other side. The money might be better, but really ... there's no reason you can't have just as much success here as you can there. And I believe Turgeon is only making $1.9 million at Maryland. Not sure where things even out in extra compensation between the two ... but Turgeon isn't making much more money.

End of the day ... maybe Wichita State wasn't too small for Mark Turgeon. Maybe Turgeon was too small for Wichita State.

To be fair, not a single poster on here wouldn't have done exactly what Turgeon did. Turgeon wasn't making anywhere NEAR what Marshall is making here. Not even close.

[Slalomshocker]

No Turg means no FSU NIT game. Which in my opinion really turned the tide for this program in terms of support. There has always been support, but that was the largest and craziest crowd ever in Koch. That game set the stage for where this program is now. And as I see it really amped the city of Wichita in terms of Shocker pride. A big thank you to Turg for building this program up. As many others have said, without Turg and Schaus, the banners of the last couple years are not hanging at the Round House.

Be grateful for all those who came before, they are the ones who laid the foundations on which Coach Marshall & these players now build. Be it coaches, players or fans, they all had a part in rebuilding Wichita State from the rubble that was the 90s to the polished new architecture that we all so enjoy being a part of.

[SubGod22]

To be fair, not a single poster on here wouldn't have done exactly what Turgeon did. Turgeon wasn't making anywhere NEAR what Marshall is making here. Not even close.

THAT is not the issue people have. It's the fact that he took a player that committed here. Regardless if he would have honored his commitment or not, that is sleazy and most coaches won't do it. 3G had the chance when he came here and refused. Self had the chance to take a Burger Boy with him from Illinois to Kansas and didn't. Many others refuse to do that. That's why many don't hold him in high regard. That and the fact that he limited himself when it came to recruiting and the "at this level" bs. That annoyed fans even when he was here and winning.

Leaving has never been the issue for most. Look, and others, appreciate the work he put in, but he tarnished his own rep with his actions. He helped build us up, but we would have never reached these kinds of levels had he stayed here. And I'm not just talking about the Elite Eight.

[pinstripers]

exactly

[Shocks2005]

WOW have we come so far from our dark days to really be discussing this? DO we not remember what was before Turgeon came? A rusty roundhouse, a team that could barely hold together a .500 season, and coaches that couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. Now not taking anything away from Marshall, I don't think we can compare apples to oranges in this situation. MT had to recruit Jamar, Randy, Paul Miller, Rob Kampman, and others before anything was built. He sold a dream. One that is kept alive today in what we have accomplished. He helped make it special.

I love how we can go from singing praises to spitting on his grave because he has ambition in his career. I would hate to see how we treat future coaches and their decisions to leave.

[Shocks2005]

THAT is not the issue people have. It's the fact that he took a player that committed here. Regardless if he would have honored his commitment or not, that is sleazy and most coaches won't do it. 3G had the chance when he came here and refused. Self had the chance to take a Burger Boy with him from Illinois to Kansas and didn't. Many others refuse to do that. That's why many don't hold him in high regard. That and the fact that he limited himself when it came to recruiting and the "at this level" bs. That annoyed fans even when he was here and winning.

Leaving has never been the issue for most. Look, and others, appreciate the work he put in, but he tarnished his own rep with his actions. He helped build us up, but we would have never reached these kinds of levels had he stayed here. And I'm not just talking about the Elite Eight.

Look I can agree, I'm not going to defend actions that I don't know what the story is. I'm only going to say this. Many recruits do choose their colleges based on coaches. If a player is unsigned to a school they can choose to attend elsewhere. Now I'm not sure if that was the situation or not, but I don't know if any of us really know the mindset of that player. I mean what if he came and hated it then decided to leave, would that make us feel better?

[wu_shizzle]

WOW have we come so far from our dark days to really be discussing this? DO we not remember what was before Turgeon came? A rusty roundhouse, a team that could barely hold together a .500 season, and coaches that couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. Now not taking anything away from Marshall, I don't think we can compare apples to oranges in this situation. MT had to recruit Jamar, Randy, Paul Miller, Rob Kampman, and others before anything was built. He sold a dream. One that is kept alive today in what we have accomplished. He helped make it special.

I love how we can go from singing praises to spitting on his grave because he has ambition in his career. I would hate to see how we treat future coaches and their decisions to leave.

This has nothing to do with disrespecting MT, I don't know anyone who didn't think MT did a great job in his time here. But those dark times you mentioned should have never been tolerated at Wichita State University. For those of us who remember basketball at Wichita State before Mike Cohen, there is an expectation of excellence.

The HCGM doubters have always pointed to his lack of wins in St Louis and in the NCAA, and while most of us could tell HCGM had great faith in WSU to reach the highest levels, we were waiting patiently to see it.

That time has come.

[MadaboutWu]

I think Sub put it well and his post sums up my feelings: I have tons of respect for and gratitude towards Turgeon for resurrecting our program. The issues Sub mentioned did rankle. I also agree that HCGM has exceeded Turgeon's record, but that MT laid a foundation and we couldn't have had one without the other (and not just for hiring HCGM but building a program which was easier to recruit to: think of HCGM's Texas recruits).

But whatever people's side on the issue I don't think this is the time to be gloating or even to be continuing this thread. We have bigger fish to fry.

[Kung Wu]

THAT is not the issue people have. It's the fact that he took a player that committed here. Regardless if he would have honored his commitment or not, that is sleazy and most coaches won't do it. 3G had the chance when he came here and refused. Self had the chance to take a Burger Boy with him from Illinois to Kansas and didn't. Many others refuse to do that. That's why many don't hold him in high regard. That and the fact that he limited himself when it came to recruiting and the "at this level" bs. That annoyed fans even when he was here and winning.

Leaving has never been the issue for most. Look, and others, appreciate the work he put in, but he tarnished his own rep with his actions. He helped build us up, but we would have never reached these kinds of levels had he stayed here. And I'm not just talking about the Elite Eight.

Believe me, I know the history. Mark Turgeon was young, and I know you and @pinstripers: are sore about taking the recruit thing, but I think you may be the only two. He took us to the Sweet 16, pulled us out of the abyss, and was underpaid the entire time. The fact that ONE kid that never even practiced a single practice on a Shocker floor or enrolled at WSU followed Mark Turgeon to A&M is so small in the scope of what he did for us, that I can't for the life me see why you two focus on it. Am I wrong in thinking that you and @pinstripers: have no idea if Turgeon and Schaus discussed it and Schaus gave it the green light? If Schaus agreed to it, it is 100% a non-issue. If Schaus didn't agree to it, then it's just a very small blip on a young early coaches career.

Edit: Okay maybe not just you and @pinstripers:.