MVC Flagships (1997-2013)

[SubGod22]

It takes the whole season to get to the Dance. Where in this statement did you mean March only? "I've never seen getting to the Dance a sign of success".

Of course, once you've reach that level of success, you want to strive to do more and make "being in the tournament" also sucessful.

This whole conversation goes back to me giving a point system to the value of Dance Cards. I felt that getting a Dance card over not getting one was worth a point. Additional points were then given for performance. Pretty simple really.

This whole conversation started by talking about March. Just getting to March isn't being successful in March. It isn't the ultimate goal. Some schools are happy with that and it is the ultimate goal. Success in March is winning in March. Pretty simple.

[ShockTalk]

How does NCAA success in that time period compare?

Ranked by #16s, #32s, #Bids

SIU 6 NCAA (02-07) 3 R32 (02,05,07) 2 S16 (02,07)

UNI 5 NCAA (04,05,06,09,10) 1R32 (10) 1 S16 (10)
*WSU 3 NCAA (06,12,13) 1 R32 (06) 1 S16 (06)
BU 1 NCAA (06) 1 R32 (06) 1 S16 (06)
MSU 1 NCAA (99) 1 32 (99) 1 S16 (99)

*CU 9 NCAA (99-03,05,07,12,13) 3 R32 (99,02,12)
In St 3 NCAA (00,01,11) 1 R32 (01)
Il St 2 NCAA (97,98) 1 R32 (98)

DU 1 NCAA (08)
UE 1 NCAA (99)

*Pending this years results

This whole conversation started by talking about March. Just getting to March isn't being successful in March. It isn't the ultimate goal. Some schools are happy with that and it is the ultimate goal. Success in March is winning in March. Pretty simple.

First, the thread itself was about general success, not NCAA success.

Second, Fev's question brought up NCAA success and jdmee did his listing which included number of times a team made the Dance. The premise is that you first must have the success of making the Dance before you can have success in it.

Third, jdmee said "I also wouldn't count making the NCAA Tourney as success in the NCAA Tourney. That is more conference success." Fine. I didn't give a point system for only success in the NCAA. It is a system to reward points based on first making the NCAA, then added points for what you do with it.

SB Shock was giving us a way to evaluate Valley teams success or lack there of. Well, making the NCAA is a success marker. Doesn't really make that much difference whether you got there for your full body of work, winning the regular season or winning the Valley tournamnet. Any of those is a sign of success and as such, can reward a team a Dance card and their conference revenue. Just because we have had NO success in the Valley tournament for 25 years doesn't change the fact that it is part of the overall system of reward and revenue.

[SubGod22]

First, the thread itself was about general success, not NCAA success.

Second, Fev's question brought up NCAA success and jdmee did his listing which included number of times a team made the Dance. The premise is that you first must have the success of making the Dance before you can have success in it.

Third, jdmee said "I also wouldn't count making the NCAA Tourney as success in the NCAA Tourney. That is more conference success." Fine. I didn't give a point system for only success in the NCAA. It is a system to reward points based on first making the NCAA, then added points for what you do with it.

SB Shock was giving us a way to evaluate Valley teams success or lack there of. Well, making the NCAA is a success marker. Doesn't really make that much difference whether you got there for your full body of work, winning the regular season or winning the Valley tournamnet. Any of those is a sign of success and as such, can reward a team a Dance card and their conference revenue. Just because we have had NO success in the Valley tournament for 25 years doesn't change the fact that it is part of the overall system of reward and revenue.

I should have said when I jumped in, the conversation was about March success. It's why I jumped in and didn't before hand.

And I've stated multiple times that I was talking about tourney success. You previously quoted the end of one of my posts, but ignored how I started the post talking about March success. Others have done that as well as I've pretty clearly stated that I've been talking about March. Others seem to pick out a small portion and disregard that it's said based on what was said both before and/or after. And that's MARCH SUCCESS.

[ShockTalk]

I should have said when I jumped in, the conversation was about March success. It's why I jumped in and didn't before hand.

And I've stated multiple times that I was talking about tourney success. You previously quoted the end of one of my posts, but ignored how I started the post talking about March success. Others have done that as well as I've pretty clearly stated that I've been talking about March. Others seem to pick out a small portion and disregard that it's said based on what was said both before and/or after. And that's MARCH SUCCESS.

Agree. CU has done less with more than other Valley teams. What you do with those opportunities also counts, but they did get there more than any one else.

Please go back and read the posts. Only one post dealt with NCAA performance. All the others about the NCAA included making the Dance. Your first post followed my post about an hour after it was posted. I stated that I understood what djmee was saying, but that making the Dance has value and therefore, worthy of a level of success and not just a product of conference success.

Lastly, please show me where I did not post your complete post. Show me how myself and others misinterpreted your first, short post on this thread, particularly where you placed it.

[SubGod22]

Lastly, please show me where I did not post your complete post. Show me how myself and others misinterpreted your first, short post on this thread, particularly where you placed it.

I'll apologize to you. I thought the short blurb you quoted earlier was from the end of post 22. That's the one that was previously quoted by jrschh. That's the one I know I specifically stated I was talking about March and he continued to make it something else. Perhaps I'll go read the first page later when I have more time.

[Veritas]

CU has certainly been an Arch Madness success. Take away their Arch Madness championships, and their NCAA tournament resume takes a substantial hit. Somehow, WSU needs to start winning those tournaments.

[garylee]

I think the term "success" is very relative and is a moving target. After losing three starters I think most people, at the time, would have agreed that making the dance this year would be a success. Now that we are there the target has most certainly moved. Personally, I think if we can win our opener and be competitive / challenge an elite team for the sweet 16 it will be a successful year. Going to the sweet 16, considering all of our injuries, would be a huge success in my mind for THIS year. If we achieve that level this year, barring injuries, the sweet 16 then becomes a minimum target for next season.