Which Conference Should WSU Join?

[wu_shizzle]

How about whatever league Cincinnati, Louisville and Memphis end up in?

[SubGod22]

As I said in the other thread:

Divorce our basketball from the Olympic sports and create a national conference. Wichita State, Gonzaga, VCU, George Mason, Bradley, BYU ... and four to six others. It doesn't really matter from that point.

We would get a TV deal similar to the Catholic deal, although likely a little less. We would earn significant money from NCAA tournament shares. We would play quality teams with solid RPIs divorced from the distraction of football. We would all be able to fly charter to every game, and be free from the limitations placed on having to transport Olympic sports to play across the country. Is there any reason we can't just keep our other sports in the MVC, other than the bitterness that would naturally be created by taking our basketball out?

I can't see any negative to this, other than the possibility that bitterness over basketball programs leaving that the Olympic sports can't find another home. If all of those teams can have their basketball programs in this one conference and stash their Olympic sports elsewhere, everyone benefits dramatically.

You can't divorce basketball from the rest. Basketball dictates your home conference.

[CBB_Fan]

You can't divorce basketball from the rest. Basketball dictates your home conference.

This part of the problem with the system, IMHO. The system wasn't designed around teams flying charter planes and having multi-million dollar revenue. It was designed decades ago around smaller, regional conferences that bonded together to save money. For example, see the MVC.

In today's world, it makes far more sense for teams to have separate revenue and non-revenue conferences. Non-revenue sports still play by the old rules of regional travel, while revenue sports make enough money to justify (and almost obligate) teams travelling longer distances to face quality competition).

[Rlh04d]

You can't divorce basketball from the rest. Basketball dictates your home conference.

Explain to me why you can't.

For what reason should basketball be connected to everything else?

Is there any good reason for basketball to be shackled to the geographic constraints of non-revenue sports? Why can football be separated but basketball can't?

Is there a rule against it? And if there is, why can't it be changed? Is it just accepted practice?

I don't see any PRACTICAL reason that revenue generating sports shouldn't be able to be separated from non-revenue generating sports. What does it really matter what conference the non-revenue sports are in?

[swiltar71]

Memphis is going to the old Big East and Louisville is going to the ACC.

Why don't we beg into the Big 12 as a non football member for a few years? We won't even take any money until we get a football program. If they lose one more team in all this realignment theyve got problems. They could add one more southern team (Tulsa/Houston/?) and get back to 12.

I know that will never happen so the MWC would be the best by FAR (but it's fun to dream.)

[wsushox1]

How about whatever league Cincinnati, Louisville and Memphis end up in?

I'd love to be in the ACC.

[Rlh04d]

Memphis is going to the old Big East and Louisville is going to the ACC.

Why don't we beg into the Big 12 as a non football member for a few years? We won't even take any money until we get a football program. If they lose one more team in all this realignment theyve got problems. They could add one more southern team (Tulsa/Houston/?) and get back to 12.

I know that will never happen so the MWC would be the best by FAR (but it's fun to dream.)

The common consensus in recruiting circles is that the Big 12 refused the opportunity to expand to 12 recently. Florida State and Notre Dame were major targets for expansion, but the Big 12 did not consider any other teams to be able to increase the per-team value of their TV contract. Supposedly Clemson was being considered, and was ultimately rejected, and FSU isn't interested without geographic partners (for the non-revenue sports, of course).

The Big 12 has less than zero interest in a brand-new Wichita State football program. Realistically, Wichita State would also barely touch their contract as a basketball only school.

[pogo]

Whoever voted for Summit and Southland needs to own up to it so the rest of the board can give you unlimited loads of crap.

Just make them wear the scarlet letter and put a scarlet "D" in front of it.

[SubGod22]

Explain to me why you can't.

For what reason should basketball be connected to everything else?

Because the NCAA says so. Not everyone plays or offers football. However, if your conference plays football, you play in that conference. If it doesn't offer football, you can play as an affiliate member in another conference. Same with other minor sports. If your conference doesn't sponsor the sport, you can be an affiliate member elsewhere. Everyone plays basketball and that's why it works that way. It makes sense if you like it or not.

[Rlh04d]

Because the NCAA says so. Not everyone plays or offers football. However, if your conference plays football, you play in that conference. If it doesn't offer football, you can play as an affiliate member in another conference. Same with other minor sports. If your conference doesn't sponsor the sport, you can be an affiliate member elsewhere. Everyone plays basketball and that's why it works that way. It makes sense if you like it or not.

I do not like it, and if true I don't believe it serves any purpose other than institutionalizing the advantage of football.

Not that I think any of the schools that don't have football have enough power to change the rule. So be it.

So ... if the problem is that "everyone plays basketball," what happens if everyone doesn't have basketball? What would happen if the MVC willingly eliminated basketball from the conference (say, if all MVC members agreed to it), to function as the Olympic Sports conference of the midwest? Followed by the creation of Olympic Sports conferences in the east and west? Essentially everyone would then have a place they could stash the Olympic Sports in a geographically friendly environment, while allowing revenue sports to float. Granted, you'd now need enough teams to allow the creation of these conferences in the three regions. I believe the NCAA requires six teams to form a conference ... an 18 team basketball-only conference, with three affiliated Olympic Sports conferences. Six teams would make for small conferences, but I expect other programs would see the benefit of exploiting the NCAA rules in this manner to join other conferences (geography in Olympic Sports has been a major constraint in football conference changes as well), and having those sports that aren't as restricted by geography (like baseball) play OOC games against the other two regional conferences.

Obviously this has increased the size and complexity of my original scheme, which has drastically reduced the chances of it ever happening, but the revenue increase is still significant. Do you see a problem with that idea given NCAA rules? I haven't been able to find the rules for primary conferences.

[SubGod22]

I do not like it, and if true I don't believe it serves any purpose other than institutionalizing the advantage of football.

Not that I think any of the schools that don't have football have enough power to change the rule. So be it.

So ... if the problem is that "everyone plays basketball," what happens if everyone doesn't have basketball? What would happen if the MVC willingly eliminated basketball from the conference (say, if all MVC members agreed to it), to function as the Olympic Sports conference of the midwest? Followed by the creation of Olympic Sports conferences in the east and west? Essentially everyone would then have a place they could stash the Olympic Sports in a geographically friendly environment, while allowing revenue sports to float. Granted, you'd now need enough teams to allow the creation of these conferences in the three regions. I believe the NCAA requires six teams to form a conference ... an 18 team basketball-only conference, with three affiliated Olympic Sports conferences. Six teams would make for small conferences, but I expect other programs would see the benefit of exploiting the NCAA rules in this manner to join other conferences (geography in Olympic Sports has been a major constraint in football conference changes as well), and having those sports that aren't as restricted by geography (like baseball) play OOC games against the other two regional conferences.

Obviously this has increased the size and complexity of my original scheme, which has drastically reduced the chances of it ever happening, but the revenue increase is still significant. Do you see a problem with that idea given NCAA rules? I haven't been able to find the rules for primary conferences.

How are you going to convince three fairly successful conferences to give up the ONLY sport that leads to money? The conferences would go bankrupt and then you're back to the same issue.

I honestly think the best way to come close to what you're trying to pull off is an arrangement between the conferences to play. Perhaps each school from each conference play a couple of games each year against each of the other conferences.

[Steeleshocker]

As I said in the other thread:

Divorce our basketball from the Olympic sports and create a national conference. Wichita State, Gonzaga, VCU, George Mason, Bradley, BYU ... and four to six others. It doesn't really matter from that point.

We would get a TV deal similar to the Catholic deal, although likely a little less. We would earn significant money from NCAA tournament shares. We would play quality teams with solid RPIs divorced from the distraction of football. We would all be able to fly charter to every game, and be free from the limitations placed on having to transport Olympic sports to play across the country. Is there any reason we can't just keep our other sports in the MVC, other than the bitterness that would naturally be created by taking our basketball out?

I can't see any negative to this, other than the possibility that bitterness over basketball programs leaving that the Olympic sports can't find another home. If all of those teams can have their basketball programs in this one conference and stash their Olympic sports elsewhere, everyone benefits dramatically.

One other thing not being mentioned is the auto-bid. The Catholic 7 can make the conference move because they take the auto-bid with them. If we create a new national conference no one will join because it would take several years for it to have an auto bid available. If WSU makes a move it is to join an existing conference or to pick up other schools.

I know football is the driver here, but I'd hoped we would be hearing more about bringing Cincinnati back to the Valley. They could be an independent in football or join another conference in football only. Maybe their program hasn't been as good recently, but they have a lot of great history.

[CBB_Fan]

One other thing not being mentioned is the auto-bid. The Catholic 7 can make the conference move because they take the auto-bid with them. If we create a new national conference no one will join because it would take several years for it to have an auto bid available. If WSU makes a move it is to join an existing conference or to pick up other schools.

I know football is the driver here, but I'd hoped we would be hearing more about bringing Cincinnati back to the Valley. They could be an independent in football or join another conference in football only. Maybe their program hasn't been as good recently, but they have a lot of great history.

As long as we have 7 schools from any one conference, we would return the autobid from that conference. So if 7 A10 schools, and 7 MVC/WCC schools joined to make a 14 team conference, it would retain the A10's autobid. I don't think the C7 worried too much about the autobid though.

[Steeleshocker]

As long as we have 7 schools from any one conference, we would return the autobid from that conference. So if 7 A10 schools, and 7 MVC/WCC schools joined to make a 14 team conference, it would retain the A10's autobid. I don't think the C7 worried too much about the autobid though.

I bet the C7 certainly considered the auto-bid as a major factor. Yes, a merger with the A-10 would likely mean we retain an auto bid, but this idea of the top teams from the WCC, MVC, A-10 getting together for a national basketball conference would likely not have 7 teams from any one conference.

[CBB_Fan]

I bet the C7 certainly considered the auto-bid as a major factor. Yes, a merger with the A-10 would likely mean we retain an auto bid, but this idea of the top teams from the WCC, MVC, A-10 getting together for a national basketball conference would likely not have 7 teams from any one conference.

It would be VERY hard get the C7 autobid without getting an at-large. So it probably was less of a priority than a convenience.

I think if you tried to built the 3 conference conglomerate, you would use 7 A10 teams, and 3 to 4 each from the MVC/WCC, if the autobid is important to such a conference.