MSU @ WSU

[WuDrWu]

When it matters Wsu gets screwed by the refs.

I can't argue the seemingly large number of game ending calls that have gone against us, proportionally. I'm eagerly awaiting the "those things have a tendency to even out over time" theorem.

[1972Shocker]

I understand crap like the goaltending call against SIU, but why do you think we didn't get a fair shake last night? Look, I'll jump on the refs anytime I believe it's warranted, but it's usually not, and certainly last night the game was called in a manner to benefit the larger more physical team. Like it or not, when you are boatracing someone, you aren't going to get 50/50 calls and be allowed to suplex the other team off the top rope onto a chair your manager throws in from the crowd.

I think that does happen late in games that are clearly one-sided and the game is clearly out of hand. Some of that is human nature and some of it is just wanting to get a crappy game over ASAP. Sort of like when a home plate umpire widens the strike zone in a one-sided baseball game.

However, it certainly does not apply to the goaltending call on Cle last night which came with the Shocks leading 24-20. The simple truth to that call is the the officials simply missed it. That is going to happen. Shocker coaches and fans made it clearly known what they thought of that call. That was the most egregious miss I recall. There are always going to be a good number of close calls that fans on one side or the other aren't going to like. As far as the goaltending call that could have been a momentum changer, but the Shocks, to their great credit, simply did not allow that to deter them. Plus it was midway through the 1st half with plenty of time for the Shocks to respond.

Now had it occurred with 2 seconds remaining to give MSU the lead then you would have a very combustable situation.

[pinstripers]

You are saying that you saw the replay and it was not offensive goaltending?

[1972Shocker]

Don't remember the first Higgins call that pizzed me off, but it was on the north end prior to the offensive goaltend call (which was his as well). Woulda liked to have seen the replay of the rimhang T and the offensive goaltend, but we are too politically correct to replay them.

What rimhang T? The only T I recall was on Cle for taunting a MSU player after his dunk. From what I could see in watching a replay of the game the T was earned. As Doc says, time to grow up and leave the playground 'tude on the playground. 3G as already addressed that one this year with Mal and I am sure he will take care of it with Cle as well. Sure liked Cle's aggressiveness last night going to the boards though.

[pinstripers]

Never saw the taunt. In our section we all thought the T was for hanging on the rim.

[1972Shocker]

Cle's first foul was crap. That's the one where Marshall stuck out his foot and Cle tripped over it and Cle was called for the foul and Marshall got 3 free throws. The other call I thought was wrong was the offensive goal tending call on Cle. The replay clearly showed that the ball was not on the rim and it was a good put back. That's 5 points the refs cost us. In this game it really didn't matter, but the screw up at the end of the SIU game certainly did. Other than a couple of questionable (at least in my mind) charge calls on us (and that happens in every game for every team) I didn't see anything to really complain about. Refs are human and the game is moving so fast at times the calls are a gut reaction -- some right and some wrong. It's the game and we all need to learn to live with it. So I try very hard to not complain (at least loudly) about the officiating.

Cle did hit Marshall's leg and if you watch Marshall shoot it looks like kicking his leg out is just is odd style. No doubt Cle ran into the leg. The main problem I have with fouls like that is that the ball was already well on it's way and Cle had actually already tipped it when the contact occurred. Probably should have been a no-call but if you are going to call a foul their it should be a common foul and not a shooting foul since the contact had no impact whatsoever on the shot. Your right on the goaltend. That was simply a missed call.

[shockerfan34]

What rimhang T? The only T I recall was on Cle for taunting a MSU player after his dunk. From what I could see in watching a replay of the game the T was earned. As Doc says, time to grow up and leave the playground 'tude on the playground. 3G as already addressed that one this year with Mal and I am sure he will take care of it with Cle as well. Sure liked Cle's aggressiveness last night going to the boards though.

From our angle Cle definitely turned his head to say something to the MSU player and then was T'ed up so it seemed that he had to have said something warranting a T.

Now just to play a little devils advocate, maybe a little attitude isnt a bad thing at this point. From reading and talking to some Jayhawk fans, they seem to agree that this years team lacks that certain "swag" that previous teams lacked and the results seem to show on the court. While getting technical fouls isnt exactly what I would suggest, having a little attitude isnt necessarily a bad thing for our shox to have when on the court as long as it isnt turned into a negative.

[1972Shocker]

From our angle Cle definitely turned his head to say something to the MSU player and then was T'ed up so it seemed that he had to have said something warranting a T.

Now just to play a little devils advocate, maybe a little attitude isnt a bad thing at this point. From reading and talking to some Jayhawk fans, they seem to agree that this years team lacks that certain "swag" that previous teams lacked and the results seem to show on the court. While getting technical fouls isnt exactly what I would suggest, having a little attitude isnt necessarily a bad thing for our shox to have when on the court as long as it isnt turned into a negative.

I love some attitude. However, simply express it with your play. Which Cle and pretty much all his teammates did a great job of last night by the way. If an opponent is giving you crap the best way to respond is on the scoreboard.

[newshock1234]

history states that throat slashing is ok, but if you say a word or two to the other team then that a "T"

[ShockRef]

It was a no brainer...

From our angle Cle definitely turned his head to say something to the MSU player and then was T'ed up so it seemed that he had to have said something warranting a T.

Now just to play a little devils advocate, maybe a little attitude isnt a bad thing at this point. From reading and talking to some Jayhawk fans, they seem to agree that this years team lacks that certain "swag" that previous teams lacked and the results seem to show on the court. While getting technical fouls isnt exactly what I would suggest, having a little attitude isnt necessarily a bad thing for our shox to have when on the court as long as it isnt turned into a negative.

From the comfort of my living room (and the advantage of TV replay), CE clearly looked straight at the MSU and yelled right in his face.

That is taunting and an Unsportsmanlike Technical Foul 1000 times out of a 1000, not 998. There is no justification for it and in no way does it benefit the team.


The troubling issue is this isn't the first time and it's occurred with multiple players.

Just ask HCGM if he thinks there is some sort of benefit to his players picking up a Technical Foul due to their inability to keep their mouth shut.

That is all.

[ShockRef]

I love some attitude. However, simply express it with your play. Which Cle and pretty much all his teammates did a great job of last night by the way. If an opponent is giving you crap the best way to respond is on the scoreboard.

Thank you.

[vancedave56]

From the comfort of my living room (and the advantage of TV replay), CE clearly looked straight at the MSU and yelled right in his face.

That is taunting and an Unsportsmanlike Technical Foul 1000 times out of a 1000, not 998. There is no justification for it and in no way does it benefit the team.

The troubling issue is this isn't the first time and it's occurred with multiple players.

Just ask HCGM if he thinks there is some sort of benefit to his players picking up a Technical Foul due to their inability to keep their mouth shut.

That is all.

I also watched on TV, while I will agree Cle had a smirky smile on his face and said something directly to the opposing player (and thus deserved the T), I would not say he yelled right in his face. Just a matter of opinion I guess. Either way, it was a T.

[forevershockerfan]

I love some attitude. However, simply express it with your play. Which Cle and pretty much all his teammates did a great job of last night by the way. If an opponent is giving you crap the best way to respond is on the scoreboard.

A wise man once told me when serious trash talking was going on in a game from both teams. "Let's allow our game to do all of our talking from here." We did just that. Later, in that same game, this same wise man made the key play that mattered, and we silently won, shook their hand as winners, which in return demanded their respect with the results. This is a true war story that comes as a 'free perk from me to each of you' and I hope it helps because I never forgot this.

3G wants us to play with class but also play D like our hair is on fire. He also appreciated and liked the words that from Mr. Carr that we play on the court like we are angry. How many times does the team on the court that has "the eye of the tiger mentality" win the close games? That will be the team that is diving for loose balls, focusing on their role and executing it, and giving it their all on every play, knowing the game might be close all the way to the end. Not always does the best team win the close games because the other team might just want the win more and do every thing possible to do just that.

[60Shock]

The refs were right on the T on Cle, he clearly taunted the MS player. But the call of goal tending was clearly in error. And as I had stated earlier, the replay showed the ball hitting the rim and bouncing a couple of inches away from it before Cle slammed it home.

[1979Shocker]

The refs were right on the T on Cle, he clearly taunted the MS player. But the call of goal tending was clearly in error. And as I had stated earlier, the replay showed the ball hitting the rim and bouncing a couple of inches away from it before Cle slammed it home.

The ref that called the goal tending was out near center court and had a bad angle to even make a call like that.