Florida #18 (7-0) vs Wichita State (6-0) Game Discussion: Nov 29 (Fri)

[ShockHat]

[QUOTE=Ashockalypse;n1463383]

Yeah I remember that. Marshall really wasn’t good toward the end. And honestly, with NIL and how easy transfers are, I think his time is over.

You have f@&$ing brain damage if you think Marshall’s Coaching sunk any where near this even enough to say that!

Wow so you’re super soft and triggered lol. I didn’t say he sank to this level (if anything, the way he (and everyone involved) left really kind of dragged us down to this level).

I was a Marshall fan, but I’m not so blind that I couldn’t recognize his struggle in the AAC and knowing that with free transfers, there’s very few players who would’ve stayed with his treatment and style. He’s an old school coach, which even as great as they are, aren’t made for this modern rules.

[C0|dB|00ded]

The truth is, we can have a big booster get pissed one off-season, write a check for $5M, and we'd be a very nationally competitive team with Mills in short order. It will always be about the Jimmy and the Joes before the X's and the O's...

But will Shocker Nation fully embrace a team full of insta-millionaires who would have never chosen our school without the dough? I will always cheer for the black and yellow t-bagging the crimson and blue, regardless of pay, but it won't ever be the same as it was with Fred, Ron, and Tekele.

Marshall was a great recruiter and fierce motivator, period. And yes, he dropped off a little towards the end of his career at WSU. It coincided soon after his becoming very, very rich. No surprise. That's human nature.

So who wants to write the $5M check? We can win again, maybe even big. But you're gonna have to pony up the ransom and hand it over to a bunch of children (or their parents). How much is winning a game worth to you?

[IndianaShocker]

No. But I do NOT want to hear totally unqualified people who have no rooting interest in the Shockers besides a family connection tell our players how they should play or disparage the play of some of them EVER again. Especially not in a gym like this where those guys CAN and DID hear that crap coming from our section.

Especially when I doubt any of them will ever watch a Shocker game after this year.

They are NOT Shocker fans, they are fans of ONE individual succeeding. One of them said it themselves. I am more and more upset about this the more I think about it, honestly, and wish I would’ve said something.

Can you elaborate on which player had the outspoken fan club? There's really no sense in hiding it, as it sounds like they themselves weren't shy about sharing their opinions/feelings.

[pinstripers]

I suppose 5 million every year MIGHT do men's basketball. Maybe. Maybe not.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I suppose 5 million every year MIGHT do men's basketball. Maybe. Maybe not.

The real sobering thought is thinking back to when we were paying our coach $3.5M. Top 10 coaching salary in the U.S. AP COY. But the players were ostensibly free (unlike Kluck-City's).

Now you're looking at $3.5M for the coach and $5M for the team. The barrier to national relevance entry has just gotten a whole lot more expensive.

[ShockerPhi]

The perfect storm of the Marshall firing (warranted), COVID, and the new NIL landscape may have killed this program in just 5 short years.

In my own personal experience, 2020 was the first time in over a decade I couldn't go to a game. It changed my routine and interests. Watching Isaac Brown try to coach D1 basketball was brutal. And our slow start into the NIL game, plus the fact that it highly encourages a huge number of transfers every year, it's really stolen the love of college basketball for me. I still try to go to games. I still try and watch. I want the feeling of excitement for game day. But it's fading more and more every year. I feel like many other people feel the same way.

And sadly, I don't see how it's going supposed to not get any worse next season, either.

[Singeril]

The perfect storm of the Marshall firing (warranted), COVID, and the new NIL landscape may have killed this program in just 5 short years.

In my own personal experience, 2020 was the first time in over a decade I couldn't go to a game. It changed my routine and interests. Watching Isaac Brown try to coach D1 basketball was brutal. And our slow start into the NIL game, plus the fact that it highly encourages a huge number of transfers every year, it's really stolen the love of college basketball for me. I still try to go to games. I still try and watch. I want the feeling of excitement for game day. But it's fading more and more every year. I feel like many other people feel the same way.

And sadly, I don't see how it's going supposed to not get any worse next season, either.

I agree with some of this. True, that the Marshall firing greatly hurt the program and the interest in the program. The program is still not recovered from that. However, COVID and NIL hit all teams on all levels. We can’t use either as an excuse. COVID has been used by too many in too many different avenues (other than basketball) for too long. In many cases, it has been used as an excuse for issues that were already present.

Like you, I’m not seeing how things will be much better next year (although, I haven’t totally given up on this year on at least being better than last year…obviously, that’s not saying much). We are going to be caught in a vicious cycle with this program until something drastically changes (and I don’t see that happening). My love for college basketball, and it’s been a long marriage, has been greatly hurt. We’re not divorced yet…but we need counseling. I go back with this program for nearly 5 decades and with others for long before that. The fan base has greatly diminished in Wichita and fans are finding other avenues for their entertainment and for their allegiance. This city likes a winner..and there hasn’t been much of that. They don’t support losers. I can remember when NOBODY cheered for K-State and now they are the #1 dog in town when it comes to college football. KU (basketball) has nearly as many fans in this town as does WSU these days. It’s sad and hurts my heart. When I see games like the Shockers played today (or the Monmouth game) I sometimes wondering if all the marriage counseling in the world will help.

[BAShocker]

Wonder what, if any, MTE we’ll be invited to (realistically) next year? Any thoughts, rumors, suggestions?

[Onegreatracer]

Wonder what, if any, MTE we’ll be invited to (realistically) next year? Any thoughts, rumors, suggestions?

Cancun seems about our level.

[C0|dB|00ded]

To have experienced the 90's and then be GIFTED back-to-back-to-back-to-back... miracles of Jim Schaus, Mark Turgeon, Gregg Marshall, Dr. Bardo, Final Four, undefeated season, absolute curb-stomping-boat-raced-facial of one of the cheatingest, predatory basketball programs in the country when it mattered most; and then to sit idly by, in the face of a little adversity, while the ENTIRE ****ING NATIONALLY RELEVANT program - is allowed to be run into the ground by a HALF-WIT, feckless amateur ****ING BETA... I mean...

You get what you ****ING DESERVE!!!

Our program is a reflection of the boosters that support it. And they must be the stupidest, poorest, most apathetic boosters in the history of college basketball.

It could also be that they are now all dead.

Long live the yellow and the black...

[ABC]

To have experienced the 90's and then be GIFTED back-to-back-to-back-to-back... miracles of Jim Schaus, Mark Turgeon, Gregg Marshall, Dr. Bardo, Final Four, undefeated season, absolute curb-stomping-boat-raced-facial of one of the cheatingest, predatory basketball programs in the country when it mattered most; and then to sit idly by, in the face of a little adversity, while the ENTIRE ****ING NATIONALLY RELEVANT program - is allowed to be run into the ground by a HALF-WIT, feckless amateur ****ING BETA... I mean...

You get what you ****ING DESERVE!!!

Our program is a reflection of the boosters that support it. And they must be the stupidest, poorest, most apathetic boosters in the history of college basketball.

It could also be that they are now all dead.

Long live the yellow and the black...

Don't you remember the full-page ad in the Eagle of lots and lots of prominent folks supporting Marshall?

[ShockerPhi]

and then to sit idly by, in the face of a little adversity, while the ENTIRE ****ING NATIONALLY RELEVANT program - is allowed to be run into the ground by a HALF-WIT, feckless amateur ****ING BETA... I mean...

Which half wit are you referring to? Eric Sexton? Darron Boatright? Isaac Brown?

[Onegreatracer]

An attempt at a more level-headed take hours latee:

We have a LOT of me me me guys on this team. They seem to all like each other and are genuinely good young men, but a LOT of guys are trying to get theirs and that can lead to issues.

We don’t turn it over a lot because we quite simply don’t look to pass all that much, honestly. When we have to make difficult passes & create, we turn it over.

X “experiment” needs to be over. The metrics are always going to inflate him against bad teams because he is a tough cover for them. He has a place on this roster to be a bench scorer, but he cannot play big minutes against good competition. It just doesn’t work. All the metrics that love him have shown that his game doesn’t translate at a higher level, even back to Drexel.

QB NEEDS to be more than a lob threat. His post game is good, but he has absolutely zero nose for the ball. He doesn’t demand it or put himself in spots to receive it and he has players that can make that happen this year. The effort is also a problem, imo

Matej is like an AR-15 in the hands of an anti-2A activist - the dude could be an absolute monster if we built a scheme around putting him in spots where he could read that double team that some teams send and make decisions, but right now he gets caught up with nowhere to go and our offense almost spotlights his weaknesses instead of his strengths.

Zion is so incredibly raw, and he HAS to develop his jumper. Everything else is good for where he is at.

Corey and Justin feel like they have to win games for us by themselves right now which is ironically hurting us. They were both pressing big time in this tournament and it fell apart today. They have to get some help.

HB is who he is. You take that on a team like this all day every day.

No comment on AJ, Bijan, or Joy.

Coaching has just been unacceptable in Florida. I thought that corner had been turned in Saint Louis but it has not. It’s not just Xs and Os either. I don’t see HCPM commanding real respect from this group right now. The amount of times our staff screams out “OVER” and our guys go under, switches are missed, rotations are late, effort is awful, assignments are blown etc is not good. Those things WILL happen at this level, but they aren’t corrected or even addressed. Hands are thrown up but there’s never a reckoning on the mistakes for 80% of the guys on the floor. It’s mind boggling to me. You don’t have to yank guys every time they turn their brains off, but you can’t let the mistakes hurt you as bad as we do without making a change. Effort also isn’t addressed at all which will bother me til the end of time.

I could spend another paragraph on my disagreements X and O wise but this has already been plenty of yapping.

We are ranked highly in luck for a reason. We will out talent our way past 80% of the AAC and win 20 games but I’m not sure I’ll personally find satisfaction in doing so the way we are playing right now. Saint Louis gave me hope that a lot of this could be brushed past but the thing about fool’s gold is everyone has days where they are a fool.

IDK. The idea of Shocker Basketball is almost more fun than the reality these days.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Which half wit are you referring to? Eric Sexton? Darron Boatright? Isaac Brown?

Boat

Isaac did what any other person would do when a moron hands you a million dollar check.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Don't you remember the full-page ad in the Eagle of lots and lots of prominent folks supporting Marshall?

We didn't need an ad, we needed the largest boosters to walk into the athletic/president's office and kindly announce that the money spigot will be turned off at midnight unless X, Y, and Z happens.

And if the above didn't get the point across, you contact the guy that knows where all the pedophile, embezzling, human trafficking, adultering, plagiarizing, rapist bodies are buried, and instruct him to "fax over a few documents" to interested parties. Then you contact those politicians, calling in the kind of favors that cause major university budgets not to make sense anymore.

You tell the program caretakers that they will fall on their swords if need be, but under NO ****ING circumstance, will THE PROGRAM be harmed one more inch than it absolutely must be. The Marshall issue will undergo an investigation that could take years. In the meantime public opinion (as well as Marshall's performance) will be routinely measured to see if the problem self-resolves (ie. slips from the public consciousness), or if a new coach, suitable to replace someone like HCGM, is found and signed.

What can NEVER happen to a nationally relevant program, the MOST important program to Wichita, is a 22 year old fat, lazy punk kid being allowed to take it down. That is pure fictional ****ing insanity. I mean, that kid disappears before something like that is allowed to happen. Just like the "problems" after the Final Four were disappeared.

Instead, here we are.

We were given all the breaks in the world after the 90's. We resurrected a program from the ashes and back to greatness. Pride was pouring out of every citizen in this humble little city. Every single major poster in this fine forum donated blood, sweat, tears, money, and vocal cords, with the intent that we NEVER go back to where we were. And yet...

So yeah, we deserve everything we get from here on out.