Wichita State (0-0) at Western Kentucky (0-0) Game Thread: Nov 4 (Mon)

[forevershockerfan]

Hilltoppers were 0-21 at 21st and Hillside. Earlier tonight they were 4-19 and missed their grand total. That helped us go 2-0 against them.

FSF rarely quotes my own self but I didn't mention I was referring to 3 point shots, but y`all knew that anywho.

It was a su-weet road victory. Remember back when our beloved Shocks were Road Warriors? 2 road wins come to mind.. The one when PJ and MB were playing and we defeated Syracuse on National TV at the Dome and laughed all the way to the bank. Jim B. Never even invited us back. Then came the road win at Creighton when we were pounding them as we watched an early exit by their disgruntled fans. That summer, 3G had a basketball camp and was playing that same game up on the scoreboard. Fun Shocker memories!

[ShockingButTrue]

I have seen a lot of 1st games, and they are usually ugly, in fact almost always ugly. We showed a lot of toughness. We were down, I think 8 in the first half, withstood some very questionable calls, faced a very good team, hostile crowd, program treating this game as their super bowl and we won relatively easily.

Nothing about this team should be compared to last year's team.

I don't understand the criticism of Matej Bosnjak. I thought he was fantastic. Solid fundamentals, blocks out and rebounds very well and a great passer.

Extremely good start for this team!

Agreed. Matej squares up to the glass intelligently. Smart player. He'll get better every week...

[MadDog]

1. Hill's line is unbelievable
2. Washington and AJ Mac were not as good as advertised
3. Cortes is still starting?
4. Both big guys get lost on defense
5. That's a big win
6. Will we shoot that many threes every time?
7. Will we make that many threes every time?
8. Did we play 9 guys? All Seniors>?
9. Was the WKU dance team present?
10. Big crowd

Big crowd. I would guess 80% capacity maybe. It also struck me that Shocker fans don’t travel anymore apparently. My son and I were there, I saw a group of 4 across the court behind the Shocker bench which I’m guessing was Pogo’s party, and that was it other than a few family members on the first row behind the bench. Kind of sad.

WKU people are super nice. Many were knowledgeable of WSU history. Talked to guys about the Stallworth era, Ron Baker, and the Corvette museum (which was very cool!!). One thing WKU does which I thought was cool is that after the game the team goes down to the baseline and mingles with the fans. Both players and fans seemed to enjoy that. Not to be confused with Shocker fans that at the end of games run to their keyboards and start bashing Bell. Sigh….

[SubGod22]

Not to be confused with Shocker fans that at the end of games run to their keyboards and start bashing Bell….

We do that during the game.

[ShockerFever]

I liked Mills' comment about Bell in the post game interview with Kennedy. Mills said Bell is confident in his shot and not hesitant to take it. That sounds like Bell will get to watch some film and have some conversations about shot selection.

He had a whole year last year to have a conversation about it and nothing has changed.

[ShockerFever]

Big crowd. I would guess 80% capacity maybe. It also struck me that Shocker fans don’t travel anymore apparently. My son and I were there, I saw a group of 4 across the court behind the Shocker bench which I’m guessing was Pogo’s party, and that was it other than a few family members on the first row behind the bench. Kind of sad.

WKU people are super nice. Many were knowledgeable of WSU history. Talked to guys about the Stallworth era, Ron Baker, and the Corvette museum (which was very cool!!). One thing WKU does which I thought was cool is that after the game the team goes down to the baseline and mingles with the fans. Both players and fans seemed to enjoy that. Not to be confused with Shocker fans that at the end of games run to their keyboards and start bashing Bell. Sigh….

Marshall had a lot of fans as he engaged with the fan base. Brown did absolutely nothing with the fans and Mills is still a wait-and-see.

In this great economy, you aren’t gonna see too many fans trekking 500 miles to watch a team coming off a 12-18 year. The program has to start performing again.

[RoyalShock]

W__U by 7.

Nailed it!

[1972Shocker]

RH: The Hill Topper - Justin Hill Excels at Frist Impressions

Road wins are quite often about having the best player on the court in your jersey. It helps when that best player is also the guard who runs the game and scores in tense moments.

On Monday, Wichita State enjoyed the benefits of great guard play in its 91-84 win at Western Kentucky. Senior Justin Hill, in his first game as a Shocker, scored 31 points, grabbed eight rebounds and handed out six assists.

While Western's Babacar Faye also played a superb game, he went scoreless for almost nine minutes late in the game when the Shockers limited him with their defense. Faye scored 28 points, but only five in the game's final 13 minutes.

Hill, with the ball in his hands almost all the time down the stretch, helped the Shockers build a lead and then hold off a rally by the Hilltoppers. Good guards – Wichita State fans know several from recent seasons – give a coach that comfort.

Hill, a senior transfer from Georgia, scored WSU's final seven points at the foul line. He scored nine of Wichita State's final 13 points. He made perhaps the game's biggest basket, a step back jumper after shaking a defender, with 3:53 to play to give the Shockers an 80-71 lead. The Shockers didn't commit a turnover in the game's final eight minutes. Hill, dealing with a full-court press much of that time, kept the Shockers from making game-changing mistakes.

Not many Shockers have made a better first impression. Hill's career-high 31 points are the most for any Shocker in their debut game, topping Bob Wilson's 29 in 1972 at Oregon State. He tied Jamie Thompson's 1965 scoring performance against New Mexico State for No. 4 on the list of most points in an opener.

That is the type of guard play needed to win on the road, especially against a 2024 NCAA Tournament team picked second in Conference USA. Mills chose to open on the road against a solid opponent to express confidence in a veteran bunch and get an immediate read on their capabilities and grit. Hill played a large role in making that bet pay off.

"You never win pretty on the road," Mills said on the radio. "We're a lot better than what we showed. I wanted to challenge them. We'll get a lot of confidence from it."

Winning on the road is the hardest things to do in college basketball. The Shockers, when many teams open with an overmatched opponent in their home gym, elected to do it the hard way. They played their first opener on the road since a loss at Alabama in 1992 and won an opener on the road for the first time since 1984 at Lamar.

Good guard play can make hard things look a little bit easier, as Justin Hill and the Shockers showed on Monday.

[1972Shocker]

Now those are court side seats:

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[forevershockerfan]

A road win against a solid team will give the Shocks a shot in the arm of confidence. A key to me was for sure the excellent play by Hill from start to finish. In the 2nd half. Another key was our 2 centers being more productive both on offense and slowing down their star to a mild roar in the 2nd half. That caused them to star firing up wholesale 3 pointers which helped us to gain a nice surpass.

This surpass was needed at about the 1:49 juncture with around an 11 point lead which dissipated to a 3 point lead. The clock so much wanted to be our friend. Just as we tended to do last Season, we missed some throws, fouled them to stop the clock as our foes made some throws, etc.

This was my favorite appreciation time for a true pg in Hill. He helped to calm us down through this self- inflicted onslaught and gave us the leadership needed to seal the winning deal.

[WuDrWu]

Post game thoughts:


Bless the NCAA for making the Croatian Sensation eligible for last night's game. We're absolutely TOAST without him in the first half with 2 early Q fouls.

I see there's different takes on Bosnjak's play. He's not the most mobile side to side big in the country. But he's solid north south. He understands spacing, knows how to set a screen (even if others don't know how to properly use it), he "sees" the floor VERY well. Paint touches to good solid looks at 3s are good and what HCPM wants and he's going to do that more often than not. You may not be impressed with his play, but you absolutely should be. He's good, he makes others better and he'll get better and better as the season goes. And we HAVE to have his size.

Not a great game for Washington but I'm not concerned. He'll find his feet and way soon enough.

I cannot believe how unprepared our scout was early. We made multiple errors against their press, we did not get back against a team we KNEW would fly down the court and we were completely unprepared to guard 5. And that part got WORSE coming out of halftime. The ONLY thing we needed to address for WKU was 5. And he gets 4 dunks coming out of halftime. SMH. That HAS to get better. Also, QB was really, really strong in the 2nd half but the young man cannot get those early fouls. Just can't do it. CAN'T. Run away. Do anything but foul. And bringing both hands down to block on a shorter player? He knows better. But again, his 2nd half was excellent.

His great 2nd half aside, you have to get him out of the game if we're going to be fouled. Not sure what you think is going to happen. Hack a Q and misses is what's going to happen.

Hill was great. He won't average 30, but he was great last night. And tough as nails and GASSED. We can't ask that every game.

Xavier is who he is. In conference, he'll be scouted and not allowed to go left like last night. But he's really good going left and getting to the basket. Really good. He plays hard and he's smart and good defensively. He doesn't need heat check shots and the 3s will not fall like that. It's a vicious circle though...you have to make teams pay for giving you open 3s. But his shot is so slow that basically no shot is open against quality competition. He's not nearly as bad as many proclaim him to be here. In fact, he's good. But also, nights like last night aren't repeatable.

You can't dismiss that win. Good solid team. They aren't going to lose much at home. That freshman off the bench is going to be a stud. 5 is a problem for all but elite programs. They're good, and we won at their place. That just can't be dismissed. It doesn't mean we're a top 25 team either, but we've got a fighting chance this season.

Somebody help me...was Zion in civis? Did I miss an injury there?

14 turnovers isn't a horrible number, especially in a game with 175 points scored. 12 would be excellent. But man it felt like more like 14 going to 27 didn't it? Like we got away with a bunch of near turnovers. WAY too much jumping and passing...reminded me of Gal Mekel in a very, very bad way.

I know the game was important to getting off on the right foot, but 9 played, 8 are seniors. Unless we're a top 20 team, that doesn't really excite me. I do like our depth and I realize we can't do anything now about how old we are. Getting Meeks healthy (which I don't expect until deep into the conference season) helps the depth and adds to my problem.

I cannot stand the way we close out on jump shooters. I wish FHCGM would grab HCPM by the throat and tell him to watch and learn how it's done right.

One area I liked but didn't like but think we can be a lot better....I thought we were pretty good getting to the cup...but FREAKING AWFUL at finishing. We're plenty big, strong, talented etc enough to finish through contact. Be tougher. Run over/through contact at the basket. Stop trying the under the basket reverse spin. Try to tomahawk the SOB. Get a charge. Finish HARD. Make the defender think twice next time even if they did take a charge. We missed SO many shots at the rim. Have to do better there and I believe we can!

17 assists to 14 turnovers, not great but decent.
8 blocks, excellent.
11 steals, excellent.
72% from the line. Solid. 5-6 missed in crunch time, has to be better but without that stretch, a scintillating 83% (25-30) and that's a nice big sample size.

If we're 11-27 (41%) from 3 all season long, we'll be pretty tough to beat. Can we be? I doubt it.


All in all, very nice debut. I hope we don't rely on the seniors for every minute. But we do have some pieces to compete with pretty much everyone on our schedule, IF we're prepared every game.

[WstateU]

The close out on jump shooters drives me nuts… how many times did we foul on a three? I’m thinking 3-4 times. I blew a head gasket the second time.

[asiseeit]

Hope ZP is healthy. The next few games PM should be able to work him in - I want to see if his defense is as good as advertised. Playing against Hill in practice should benefit them BOTH going forward. Hill won't score 30 ppg but we will get more production from HB, CW and MB. Hope Meeks is close to 100% by xmas which would give us 10-11 depth wise and that doesn't count Joy who also will get some PT the next few games. I am guessing Williams will RS but who knows ?

[molly jabali]

Marshall had a lot of fans as he engaged with the fan base. Brown did absolutely nothing with the fans and Mills is still a wait-and-see.

In this great economy, you aren’t gonna see too many fans trekking 500 miles to watch a team coming off a 12-18 year. The program has to start performing again.

SPOT ON

[molly jabali]

Post game thoughts:


Bless the NCAA for making the Croatian Sensation eligible for last night's game. We're absolutely TOAST without him in the first half with 2 early Q fouls.

I see there's different takes on Bosnjak's play. He's not the most mobile side to side big in the country. But he's solid north south. He understands spacing, knows how to set a screen (even if others don't know how to properly use it), he "sees" the floor VERY well. Paint touches to good solid looks at 3s are good and what HCPM wants and he's going to do that more often than not. You may not be impressed with his play, but you absolutely should be. He's good, he makes others better and he'll get better and better as the season goes. And we HAVE to have his size.

Not a great game for Washington but I'm not concerned. He'll find his feet and way soon enough.

I cannot believe how unprepared our scout was early. We made multiple errors against their press, we did not get back against a team we KNEW would fly down the court and we were completely unprepared to guard 5. And that part got WORSE coming out of halftime. The ONLY thing we needed to address for WKU was 5. And he gets 4 dunks coming out of halftime. SMH. That HAS to get better. Also, QB was really, really strong in the 2nd half but the young man cannot get those early fouls. Just can't do it. CAN'T. Run away. Do anything but foul. And bringing both hands down to block on a shorter player? He knows better. But again, his 2nd half was excellent.

His great 2nd half aside, you have to get him out of the game if we're going to be fouled. Not sure what you think is going to happen. Hack a Q and misses is what's going to happen.

Hill was great. He won't average 30, but he was great last night. And tough as nails and GASSED. We can't ask that every game.

Xavier is who he is. In conference, he'll be scouted and not allowed to go left like last night. But he's really good going left and getting to the basket. Really good. He plays hard and he's smart and good defensively. He doesn't need heat check shots and the 3s will not fall like that. It's a vicious circle though...you have to make teams pay for giving you open 3s. But his shot is so slow that basically no shot is open against quality competition. He's not nearly as bad as many proclaim him to be here. In fact, he's good. But also, nights like last night aren't repeatable.

You can't dismiss that win. Good solid team. They aren't going to lose much at home. That freshman off the bench is going to be a stud. 5 is a problem for all but elite programs. They're good, and we won at their place. That just can't be dismissed. It doesn't mean we're a top 25 team either, but we've got a fighting chance this season.

Somebody help me...was Zion in civis? Did I miss an injury there?

14 turnovers isn't a horrible number, especially in a game with 175 points scored. 12 would be excellent. But man it felt like more like 14 going to 27 didn't it? Like we got away with a bunch of near turnovers. WAY too much jumping and passing...reminded me of Gal Mekel in a very, very bad way.

I know the game was important to getting off on the right foot, but 9 played, 8 are seniors. Unless we're a top 20 team, that doesn't really excite me. I do like our depth and I realize we can't do anything now about how old we are. Getting Meeks healthy (which I don't expect until deep into the conference season) helps the depth and adds to my problem.

I cannot stand the way we close out on jump shooters. I wish FHCGM would grab HCPM by the throat and tell him to watch and learn how it's done right.

One area I liked but didn't like but think we can be a lot better....I thought we were pretty good getting to the cup...but FREAKING AWFUL at finishing. We're plenty big, strong, talented etc enough to finish through contact. Be tougher. Run over/through contact at the basket. Stop trying the under the basket reverse spin. Try to tomahawk the SOB. Get a charge. Finish HARD. Make the defender think twice next time even if they did take a charge. We missed SO many shots at the rim. Have to do better there and I believe we can!

17 assists to 14 turnovers, not great but decent.
8 blocks, excellent.
11 steals, excellent.
72% from the line. Solid. 5-6 missed in crunch time, has to be better but without that stretch, a scintillating 83% (25-30) and that's a nice big sample size.

If we're 11-27 (41%) from 3 all season long, we'll be pretty tough to beat. Can we be? I doubt it.


All in all, very nice debut. I hope we don't rely on the seniors for every minute. But we do have some pieces to compete with pretty much everyone on our schedule, IF we're prepared every game.

MY THOUGHT ON THE SENIOR LADEN MAYBE THAT EVERY YEAR FROM HERE ON OUT HAS LARGE SENIOR NIGHTS....GOOD WAY TO FINISH A CAREER, PERHAPS?