2013 Sears ESPN Bracketbuster Game

[Commish]

Both Creighton games and last weekend's UNI game have/will be on ESPN/2. It's not that special to us.

I know it's a really good game for you guys but you have to understand our feelings about the event. We're playing a team 40-50 spots below us in the RPI. That would be like you playing a team like Denver.

i do understand - you guys are playing down, we're playing up. The whole Valley is playing down, and there were simply no top road teams, and that's why BB is ending. And I don't want to be the jerk outsider on your board. I really am trying to point out the upside, and to acquaint you a bit with your opponent. With this post I'll stop. I'm just saying, look, it is what it is, and it's really not too bad. It's a good opponent, a good game, it can help you as much as hurt you. Maybe you wanted more from BB, but it's a heckuva lot better than most of your non-conference fodder and two-thirds or more of your league games.

UD is a solid program. It may "shock" you, but UD has actually been on ESPN 1 or 2 more in the last two years than Wichita has. Yeah, it's a big deal to us, and we don't pretend otherwise, but it's not something new. We bring good non-conference teams to our home arena - St. John's and nationally ranked Mississippi State last year, Akron (whom we beat) this year (it seems some guys here were hoping for Akron). We play a tough non-conference schedule - this year including Syracuse, Miami, Pitt, Temple, and St. John's. Our conference lost a lot when Butler left, but then Butler only finished 5th last year. The Horizon is still ranked 12th in the country - the Valley is 9th.

UD doesn't play in a "rented gym" as someone said - Calihan Hall is one of the great "pits" of college basketball, a wonderful 8500 seat arena on campus, built in 1952 (of course renovated many times). Narrow halls, no sparkling concessions, no luxury boxes, but you are right on top of the action, and every seat is great. As good a place for actually watching basketball as you will find. Come out next year and see. Detroit's tradition may not match Wichita's, but it exceeds that of many current Valley teams - Dave DeBusschere, Spencer Haywood, Dick Vitale, up through more recent players like Willie Green (one more alum currently in the NBA than WS has). In fact 21 Titans have played in the NBA, as many as Creighton and Wichita combined.

And as it sits this morning, the only other time in the last 5 years you've had a BB opponent with a higher RPI was another Horizon team, Cleveland State, in 2009. I know, you don't really want to hear it right now. So read this again in a few days. Glasses half full, guys.

[GOSHOX1]

Boy now I am excited....said no one

[vancedave56]

It will likely be a very good game - and a game we need to win if we expect to do anything at all in post season. WINNING is all that matters.

[SubGod22]

I just want to state that nothing said in this thread has been to put down Detroit as an opponent. Only pointing out that once again, we have a game that if we win, it does little to nothing and if we lose, will cost us a couple of spots. It's hard to get up for an opponent whose RPI is so far below ours and not how this crap event was supposed to be, although it has been many times... At least last year when we were screwed over (on RPI) we went somewhere we recruit a fair amount. I only know of one player we are currently recruiting from Michigan and nobody knows how or where he popped up on our radar until he was in the house for the Creighton game.

I'm sure the game with Detroit will be a good one. The way we've been playing, it'll be better for them than it is us. But if we figure things out, we'll take care of business.

I will say there's no way in hell I'd go to the return game if it were an option. That's one city I have no desire to visit.

[KC Shox]

i do understand - you guys are playing down, we're playing up. The whole Valley is playing down, and there were simply no top road teams, and that's why BB is ending. And I don't want to be the jerk outsider on your board. I really am trying to point out the upside, and to acquaint you a bit with your opponent. With this post I'll stop. I'm just saying, look, it is what it is, and it's really not too bad. It's a good opponent, a good game, it can help you as much as hurt you. Maybe you wanted more from BB, but it's a heckuva lot better than most of your non-conference fodder and two-thirds or more of your league games.

UD is a solid program. It may "shock" you, but UD has actually been on ESPN 1 or 2 more in the last two years than Wichita has. Yeah, it's a big deal to us, and we don't pretend otherwise, but it's not something new. We bring good non-conference teams to our home arena - St. John's and nationally ranked Mississippi State last year, Akron (whom we beat) this year (it seems some guys here were hoping for Akron). We play a tough non-conference schedule - this year including Syracuse, Miami, Pitt, Temple, and St. John's. Our conference lost a lot when Butler left, but then Butler only finished 5th last year. The Horizon is still ranked 12th in the country - the Valley is 9th.

UD doesn't play in a "rented gym" as someone said - Calihan Hall is one of the great "pits" of college basketball, a wonderful 8500 seat arena on campus, built in 1952 (of course renovated many times). Narrow halls, no sparkling concessions, no luxury boxes, but you are right on top of the action, and every seat is great. As good a place for actually watching basketball as you will find. Come out next year and see. Detroit's tradition may not match Wichita's, but it exceeds that of many current Valley teams - Dave DeBusschere, Spencer Haywood, Dick Vitale, up through more recent players like Willie Green (one more alum currently in the NBA than WS has). In fact 21 Titans have played in the NBA, as many as Creighton and Wichita combined.

And as it sits this morning, the only other time in the last 5 years you've had a BB opponent with a higher RPI was another Horizon team, Cleveland State, in 2009. I know, you don't really want to hear it right now. So read this again in a few days. Glasses half full, guys.

We're not mad about Detroit, just disappointed about the BB thang. I for one, like this game. Not so much about what you guys can do for us this year, but what you will do for us next season. I think what you guys bring back and assuming McCallum stays, you might be a top 40 team that we will be facing in the return game. If we can beat you next season on the road will only make our schedule that much better.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Yes, no disrespect to Detroit whatsoever. Solid program, good team, should be a good game. It's just, yet again, we're matched up with a team that has A LOT more to gain than we have to lose. The frustration is directed towards ESPN, not Detroit.

[1972Shocker]

Yes, no disrespect to Detroit whatsoever. Solid program, good team, should be a good game. It's just, yet again, we're matched up with a team that has A LOT more to gain than we have to lose. The frustration is directed towards ESPN, not Detroit.

The frustration should be (and below the surface I think it really is) with the performance (or lack thereof) of the Shocks in the BB games. As someone else mentioned previously we have done great in the return games and have gotten better opponents than we seem to be able to schedule on our own. If the Shocks were as successful in the BB games as they have been in the return games most fans would be quite satsified (if not elated) with the BB experiment. That said, it has outlived its purposes and usefulness and it is time for it to go into the dust bin of history.

[GoShockers89]

I don't really buy the whole "these are better games than we could have gotten on our own" argument. These games are home-and-home series. Does anyone think we couldn't have scheduled a home and home with Austin Peay, Appalachian State, Northern Arizona, Cleveland State, Detroit, Davidson, George Mason or VCU if we'd really wanted to? VCU is the only name on that list that strikes me as a coup for scheduling purposes.

We turn down plenty of offers for home and homes with perennial top 100 teams, including Oral Roberts every single offseason.

[1972Shocker]

I don't really buy the whole "these are better games than we could have gotten on our own" argument.

We turn down plenty of offers for home and homes with perennial top 100 teams, including Oral Roberts every single offseason.

Documentation please! TIA.

[ShockerFever]

I just don't think Detroit fans understand our position. If they were in the Top 15 this year, had a Top 25 RPI and got a team with an RPI around 70 for an event designed to help teams get into the tourney, they'd be doing the exact same thing. Now, they're all mad because they don't understand this so now they're "going to beat the Witchita Whiners in their rented gym".

[GoShockers89]

Documentation please! TIA.

Because paper trails of a coach not returning calls are everywhere. Come on, that's like asking someone to show proof that XYZ BCS school turned down a HCGM home and home.

It's common knowledge that we turned tail as fast as possible against ORU after the Fridge Holman episode.

Also, you glossed over the bulk of the post describing our illustrious opponents in the BB. More often than not they have failed to be supermodels.

[ABC]

If Creighton leaves the Valley, Detroit is as good of a replacement as any other suggestion I've seen.

[1972Shocker]

Also, you glossed over the bulk of the post describing our illustrious opponents in the BB. More often than not they have failed to be supermodels.

Perhaps it's your expectations that are the issue then. I have never, ever suggested that our BB opponents were supermodels. But we have had some good BB opponents. What we have not had generally is good performance in BB games. While the BB opponents may not have been supermodels they have been good enough beat us as often as not in the BB games.

[1972Shocker]

Because paper trails of a coach not returning calls are everywhere. Come on, that's like asking someone to show proof that XYZ BCS school turned down a HCGM home and home.

It's common knowledge that we turned tail as fast as possible against ORU after the Fridge Holman episode.

Since you stated that we have turned down many opportunities to schedule better teams as a fact, I just assumed their was some documentation. Perhaps, I misinterpreted your post and you were really stating an opinion.

[GoShockers89]

Perhaps it's your expectations that are the issue then. I have never, ever suggested that our BB opponents were supermodels. But we have had some good BB opponents. What we have not had generally is good performance in BB games. While the BB opponents may not have been supermodels they have been good enough beat us as often as not in the BB games.

Sure, there have been some decent games. The disagreement comes from you saying that we:

have gotten better opponents than we seem to be able to schedule on our own.

I disagree. I think we can find several non-BCS teams in the top 100 for a home and home. Teams like Denver (top 100 the year they came) and South Dakota State (top 100 this year) have come all the way here for a scrimmage against us- I'm sure they would have much rather been able to lock down a 1-for-1 instead. We discontinued a series against Oral Roberts, a perennial top 100 team. We bought Southern Mississippi and UAB for one and dones (USM at IBA, granted) the year after they got at-large bids. I don't see how series against Northern Arizona, Cleveland State, Austin Peay, Davidson, etc. have a leg up on any of those opportunities. VCU is the shining, notable exception.

The reality is, scheduling is so difficult because we are just as hypocritical as the BCS schools. We don't want a home and home against some crappy OVC or Summit League school because they don't offer us anything in the way of publicity or television, even if they are supposed to be in the 50-100 range. We want home and homes with schools who offer us something to gain, and they are usually in the BCS. Those same schools historically don't want to play us for the same reason that we don't play schools like ORU.

Long story short, I don't think it'd be tough for us to grab home and homes with average, non-BCS teams. We elect not to.