NORTH TEXAS (7-5, 0-0) at WICHITA STATE (8-5, 0-0) Game Thread

[TrackSuitAndTie]

Eh .. Just going to have to disagree. If Abmas leaves this year, does their ball keep rolling? Nothing suggests they do. The Sweet 16 is nice .. but that regular season wasn't a good regular season. They were 18-11, finished 4th in the Summit League and was 182 in Kenpom entering the postseason. That was a bad team that had a couple lucky wins on the back of some crazy performances by Abmas and Obanor. (also of note, that year was the weird Covid year with teams schedules getting all weird and limited fans in the NCAA tourney)

Last year was his only year with a team finishing better than Top 125 in KP (they ended 72) .. and that was built against the 260th best schedule.

So really, he had 1 good year, and a couple good post season games. The remaining 4.99 years were bad.

Cupcake.jpg

[shockerfan]

Coach Brown, I didn't know you were on SN.

Nah, if that were the case I would just say let Rogers go ISO and let everyone else try and rebound if he misses. And let the dawg be the dawg. Lol

[Kung Wu]

Can't help but think today how much Max Abmas would've helped this team. Not saying him alone would've turned this into an NCAA tournament team, but a playmaker with an outside shot would've done wonders for this team. Although that statement holds true for most elite college players.

It can't be overstated.

Here are the final NBA Western Conference standings for 2022-2023 (last year):

Denver Nuggets
Memphis Grizzlies
Sacramento Kings
Phoenix Suns
Los Angeles Clippers
Golden State Warriors
Los Angeles Lakers
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Orleans Pelicans
Oklahoma City Thunder
Dallas Mavericks
Utah Jazz
Portland Trail Blazers
Houston Rockets
San Antonio Spurs

Houston Rockets had a .268 win/loss percentage.

What about this year, so far?

NBA Western Conference standings for 2023-2024:

Minnesota Timberwolves
Oklahoma City Thunder
Denver Nuggets
Los Angeles Clippers
Sacramento Kings
New Orleans Pelicans
Dallas Mavericks
Houston Rockets
Phoenix Suns
Los Angeles Lakers
Golden State Warriors
Utah Jazz
Memphis Grizzlies
Portland Trail Blazers
San Antonio Spurs

Houston Rockets now have a winning win/loss percentage at .531

The two different starters this year are FVV instead of Kevin Porter Jr, and Dillon Brooks instead of KJ Martin. So what gives? Let's look how the returning starters are doing with FVV feeding them the rock, instead of Kevin Porter Jr:

Shooting guard:
Jalen Green
2023: 2602 MP, 22.1 Pts/3.7 Reb/3.7 Ast, 1.8 WS
2024: 965 MP, 17.4 Pts/4.6 Reb/3.1 Ast, 1.0 WS
Scoring not quite as effective behind FVV, but rebounds have increased

Small forward:
2023: KJ Martin 2292 MP, 12.7 Pts/5.5 Reb/1.5 Ast, 4.9 WS
2024: Dillon Brooks 866 MP, 13.6 Pts/3.5 Reb/1.7 Ast, 1.3 WS
Brooks slightly more productive than Martin, maybe because of FVV or maybe he's just better

However ...

Power Forward:
Jabari Smith Jr.
2023: 2451 MP, 12.8 Pts/7.2 Reb/1.3 Ast, 1.9 WS
2024: 943 MP, 13.3 Pts/8.6 Reb/1.5 Ast, 2.8 WS
More effective in all stats under FVV

Center:
Alperen Şengün
2023: 2171 MP, 14.8 Pts/9.0 Reb/3.9 Ast, 5.2 WS
2024: 1023 MP, 21.5 Pts/9.0 Reb/5.2 Ast, 4.3 WS
WAAAAY more effective behind FVV

I have been thoroughly convinced for a long time that a Center (and to a lesser extent also the Power Forward) is only as good as the point guard setting him up.

This explains why Pohto is struggling this year -- no true PG setting him up (especially a future NBA PG).
It also explains why Germany is ineffective this year. No true PG setting him up.
It also explains why all of a sudden we are seeing an uptick in production from Ballard --- Cortes is connecting with him now.
However, Cortes appears to rely on a large dominant center to be effective. Pohto is not that. Pohto relies on an experienced PG to be effective -- we don't have a super experienced one.

A gaping hole of not having a true PG is pretty much the worst situation you can be in in high level ball, in my humble opinion.

One or two recruits next year CAN entirely change the trajectory of our program. The PG position is that important.

[Stickboy46]

I don't even want to think about the state of the fanbase if WSU doesn't have an NIT-level team next season.

I know that sounds like a stretch .. but there are some real problem if he doesn't. With the transfer portal, continued down years is only going to invite players to leave (which is sometimes what we want). Also mentioned above .. if somehow we DON'T have a bunch leave this year .. we will have to replace AT LEAST 7 players after next year. So you could be looking at an entire rebuild going into year 3 with no momentum.

I think most would probably be ok with missing the postseason (NIT) next year if its part of a true build and there is growth and progress throughout the year. Right now we are just rapidly going the wrong direction.

[Singeril]

Where is your criticism of the others that have contributed much less? You seem to have it out for KP. Would you start him? How would you use/play him on this team?

over they years, I’ve called out many players (and coaches) who are giving sub-standard performances. The difference is that KP was to be a leader on this team—a catalyst to build upon. He has fallen short of that.

I don’t “have it out” for any player—hardly. I do call out the comments when someone says the team should run through KP. That just isn't happening. And I recognize he did well during the last half of last year. We all were happy he returned after declaring for the portal. But, he isn't fulfilling his promise and has been soft (as so many recognize). For now, I’d use him as a sixth man where he has shown more promise in the past.

[SB Shock]

I don't even want to think about the state of the fanbase if WSU doesn't have an NIT-level team next season.

If WSU doesn't start getting better this year, there is going to be a problem with the fanbase that will carry into next year. They need fans to start coming back and get attendance increasing. If the season continues with the present trend there will be another decline in season tickets instead of selling them for next year.

[TrackSuitAndTie]

I think the starting rotation needs to be:

PG - Cortes (might as well give him some run and see what happens, at least he tries to pass the ball)
SG - Rogers
SF - Ridgnal
PF - Abidde (why doesn't Ike play anymore?)
C - Ballard

Beverly and Pohto (playing the 5 exclusively) first off the bench. Bell and DeGray get spot minutes as needed.

At some point I think HCPM needs to give Joy a shot at some of Bell's minutes. Germany seems to have no shot at playing so I'll leave him out of the rotation.

[forevershockerfan]

Here is my hopes of possible new things to try. Based on the team stats and who produced and or played hard or smart last night, here are my preference of little changes that might help some in close games.

Wake Up Call: Starters Sunday. 1st Half 1. Cortes 2. Rogers 3. DR 4.. KP 5. Q. Ballard. Go with the other 5 some too giving Germany a chance. 2nd. half starters? For sure Rogers and if Bell and Beverly who usually start are having good games, put them back in. Reward hustle teamwork and positive performances. We seem content. DR has earned this chance and this starting line up is a good rebounding team. If Temple has a good player that needs Beverly guarding him, start him in place of KP. In. 2nd half.

Why not surprise the world and sprinkle in some various zones and match up zones sometimes? At least it will shock our foes. We are needing to improve our overall D, and giving too many easy baskets. Even Coach Marshall tried this occasionally and with some success.

Why not slow down on 3 pointers, especially by our poor performers, and work it into KP and Ballard more inside and set more picks for Rogers please. KP can pass, but not seeing him much in our offensive routines lately. Bell actually kicked the ball out some while penetrating and covered up last game. More, More, More of that please XB.

[SB Shock]

If WSU doesn't start getting better this year, there is going to be a problem with the fanbase that will carry into next year. They need fans to start coming back and get attendance increasing. If the season continues with the present trend there will be another decline in season tickets instead of selling them for next year.

Attendance.jpg

[Dan]

I think we need to scrap our current 1v1 style offense and go to a full court havoc style defense that gets offense from pressure D, sort of a Memphis style. We already look ugly as hell trying to run a half court offense and the only spark we had last night was when we applied the full pressure toward the end of the game. We have athletes that can't shoot, let's put them in the best position to make baskets and that's on a fast break. Maybe we get blown out a few times but it might be more interesting than what we saw last night.

[ShockerFever]

Actually no you couldn't have. Winthrop won their league 7 of the 10 years he was there. The other results were 2nd, 2nd, 3rd. It was obvious he was able to compete consistently, he just needed to "level up" to the MVC at the time.

Mills hasn't shown the ability to even dominate a lower level conference so far, so he's going to have to change what he does if he wants to do it here.

But just for shits and giggles, post his Ken Pom records there.

[shock-it-to-me]

I'm adverse to singling out college age kids for criticism, but Bell cost the team pretty big right before half....two missed free throws then a costly turnover,....I know there is not a lot of love for Bijan but the ball does not die in his hands....

Frankly, I'm not a fan of the offensive style...not much movement....

it doesn't die in his hands it just goes right to the other team. Four turnovers in just 17 minutes. Bell at least had almost half of our assists.

[WuShockFan]

I've always favored a full-court press style of defense, ever since I was a little kid watching the Arkansas Razorbacks in the early-to-mid 90s. Nolan Richardson took that team to two consecutive national championships with that style of play. They called it 40 Minutes of Hell. It was basically a full-court press the entire game. They had good players, but a lot of their players were just Arkansas dudes who were trained to play in that system.

[RoyalShock]

I think the starting rotation needs to be:

PG - Cortes (might as well give him some run and see what happens, at least he tries to pass the ball)
SG - Rogers
SF - Ridgnal
PF - Abidde (why doesn't Ike play anymore?)
C - Ballard

Beverly and Pohto (playing the 5 exclusively) first off the bench. Bell and DeGray get spot minutes as needed.

At some point I think HCPM needs to give Joy a shot at some of Bell's minutes. Germany seems to have no shot at playing so I'll leave him out of the rotation.

I also think it's time for a lineup and substitution pattern change. The one you suggest isn't bad, but I'd rather slot Ridgnal in at PF and keep Beverly at SF. Abidde is just too much of a wild-card. I don't know why he only played two minutes last night, but unless he was sick, it's clear Mills didn't like something about his performance/demeanor/attitude. Right now he's a guy who could be a spark off the bench or a disaster. Definitely agree with no more Pohto at the 4.

After listening to Mills' post game and looking over the box score, it was clear he made an emphasis at half on shutting down UNT's three-point game. They went 0-4 in the 2nd half after going 8-17 in the first. But credit them for taking what we were giving up as a result. It also showed up in their FT shooting. 6 attempts 1st half, 15 2nd half.

[SubGod22]

I think the starting rotation needs to be:

PG - Cortes (might as well give him some run and see what happens, at least he tries to pass the ball)
SG - Rogers
SF - Ridgnal
PF - Abidde (why doesn't Ike play anymore?)
C - Ballard

Beverly and Pohto (playing the 5 exclusively) first off the bench. Bell and DeGray get spot minutes as needed.

At some point I think HCPM needs to give Joy a shot at some of Bell's minutes. Germany seems to have no shot at playing so I'll leave him out of the rotation.

It's really hard to trust anyone. Rogers makes shots but sometimes forces things. Some of those forces work and I get that there's not a lot of trust to go around right now.

PG is just a bad position right now. Bell is mostly a black hole. He's trying to pass some now, but they're rarely good passes. Cortes is a willing passer, but he's willing to give it to the other team as well. Joy is a question mark, but one I'd like to explore more of.

SG is all Rogers. In fact, he's the only one that can shoot.

SF is hit and miss. Ridgnal can be pretty good, but he's inconsistent. Beverly when he plays within himself can be pretty solid, but he's inconsistent.

PF/C is a mess. DeGray is what he is. Nothing special but doesn't completely suck. Pohto is misused. Ballard is what he is. He'd be better if we actually had good guards that could both penetrate and pass him the ball at the rim. Abidde really needs more court time. He's still got a pretty high ceiling if someone will give him the chance to grow into it.

I'm probably forgetting someone but this team is honestly pretty forgettable.