When is Gregg Marshall Going to Land the Lunker?

[pogo]

I think Memphis is the poster child here. Conference USA isn't exactly a haven of blue chip recruits--except for Memphis.

It will be interesting to see if memphis can continue to recruit at the same level now that coach "Cal" is gone.

[pogo]

THAT is a lunker.

[shockmonster]

THAT is a lunker.

Your definition and CB's definition are similar that they are in the eyes of the beholder. I can't tell the difference between a lunker and a blue chipper. Who cares. I think that if we continue to recruit Top 100-150 recruits, both juco and high school, our team will continue to be in the national discussion.

[60Shock]

Perhaps we can't land the 5 star recruits at the present or near present time, but if over the next three years GM can continue to hook two or three more 4 star players (one a year) that may very well do the trick.

[1972Shocker]

I sure wouldn't throw that one back. Probably keep the fish too!

[GarH]

As long as Josh Pastner is at Memphis they will have good recruiting.

[DistrictBaller]

VCU has two top-100 players coming in the 2012 class this year since Melvin Johnson recently de-committed from Miami and enrolled at VCU.

Jordan Burgess 92 grade (#96 in Class of 2012): http://espn.go.com/college-sports/ba...jordan-burgess

Melvin Johnson 92 grade (#85 in Class of 2012): http://espn.go.com/college-sports/ba...melvin-johnson

I think any mid-major program getting a legitimate top 10 center/PF prospect is next to impossible. Those types of players are at a premium everywhere. There are a ton of BCS programs that don't have them and they are all fighting over the few that are available. Only the truly elite schools get that level of big man. Others have to get raw bigs and hope that they develop. The big boys are all over the ones that can play from day one.

[SubGod22]

VCU has two top-100 players coming in the 2012 class this year since Melvin Johnson recently de-committed from Miami and enrolled at VCU.

Jordan Burgess 92 grade (#96 in Class of 2012): http://espn.go.com/college-sports/ba...jordan-burgess

Melvin Johnson 92 grade (#85 in Class of 2012): http://espn.go.com/college-sports/ba...melvin-johnson

I think any mid-major program getting a legitimate top 10 center/PF prospect is next to impossible. Those types of players are at a premium everywhere. There are a ton of BCS programs that don't have them and they are all fighting over the few that are available. Only the truly elite schools get that level of big man. Others have to get raw bigs and hope that they develop. The big boys are all over the ones that can play from day one.

UNLV has a verbal from a Top 50 PF. I'm guessing he'll be in the top 10 at his position but they don't have that list up yet at Rivals. But he's #35 overall.

Harvard has a C, #66 overall, committed for next year. Although I understand that the Ivy's are different.

This year, UNLV has an incoming FR PF that is 7 overall and 1 at PF. UNLV also has a couple of 4 and 5 star wings/guards. They also have the #18 PF and 72 overall.

Fresno State has a C that is 12 at his position, so barely missed out, but 52 overall.

Last year, Charleston landed the #3 C, 28 overall.

Even Alcorn State landed a Top 100 G.

I know I've skipped previous guards who've committed to non BcS schools, but Central Michigan landed the #4 SG, 28 overall, in 2010.

FIU landed the #12 PF, 46 overall.

St. Joseph's landed the #8 C, 79 overall

In 2009, La Salle landed the #5 C, 35 overall

Akron landed the # 6 C, 43 overall

UTEP landed the #7 C, 54 overall

Charlotte landed the #24 PF, but he was 83 overall

Marshall landed the #12 C, 87 overall

UMass landed the # 27 PF, 90 overall

Fresno State landed the #13 C, 93 overall

In 2008, Nevada got the #12 PF, 31 overall.

New Mexico landed the #13 PF, 40 overall

Xavier landed the #8 C, 41 overall

SIU landed the #14 PF, 43 overall

Utah landed the #17 C, 90 overall

I thought I had one for Gonzaga in 2007, but he's was a Top 10 SF, 25 overall

UNLV landed the #5 C, 26 overall

New Mexico State had the #8 PF, 31 overall

New Mexico State also landed the #21 PF, 78 overall

Butler had the #26 PF, 91 overall

Gonzaga got the #10 C, 102 overall

In 2006, UAB landed the #18 PF, 69 overall

In 2005, Gonzaga signed a PF that was #9 PF, 39 overall

In 2003, Charlotte landed the #7 C, 39 overall

4* stopped at 75, as Valpo signed a C who was 76 overall and Cleveland State signed on that was 86 overall.

These are all 4 or 5 star recruits (Rivals) and I skipped over all the guards who went to non-BcS schools and Memphis as well. There aren't a ton, but based on this, it's becoming more common/acceptable for kids to land at non-BcS schools. There's no reason to think we can't land a big in these ranges in the future. And guards were a little more common I think.

[Dave Stalwart]

hard to argue with that. nice post

[DistrictBaller]

I meant top 10 overall subgod, not at his position. That was the scenario being discussed, no?

I do apologize as I can see how that easily could have been misinterpreted though.

Elite big men (ie. one-and-dones) that are ready to play immediately are EXTREMELY tough for mid-majors to grab. None of those guys who went to mid-majors fit that category. Most were 4-year players and I don't think any of them were one and done. The only guy I can think of that came close was Austin Daye at Gonzaga who went after 2 years.

Elite guards are much more plentiful and easier to nab. Truly elite big men are at a huge premium in college recruiting. Sometimes you luck out and catch a late bloomer, but otherwise the big guys that can really play are smothered by the elite BCS schools as soon as they show that level of skill.

[SubGod22]

I meant top 10 overall subgod, not at his position. That was the scenario being discussed, no?

I do apologize as I can see how that easily could have been misinterpreted though.

Elite big men (ie. one-and-dones) that are ready to play immediately are EXTREMELY tough for mid-majors to grab. None of those guys who went to mid-majors fit that category. Most were 4-year players and I don't think any of them were one and done. The only guy I can think of that came close was Austin Daye at Gonzaga who went after 2 years.

Elite guards are much more plentiful and easier to nab. Truly elite big men are at a huge premium in college recruiting. Sometimes you luck out and catch a late bloomer, but otherwise the big guys that can really play are smothered by the elite BCS schools as soon as they show that level of skill.

Some took it that way, but the OP said Top 10 at their position and went as far to say 4 and 5 star types. That's normally still a pretty select group. Even in top 10, UNLV has one on their roster this year.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I meant top 10 overall subgod, not at his position. That was the scenario being discussed, no?

I do apologize as I can see how that easily could have been misinterpreted though.

Elite big men (ie. one-and-dones) that are ready to play immediately are EXTREMELY tough for mid-majors to grab. None of those guys who went to mid-majors fit that category. Most were 4-year players and I don't think any of them were one and done. The only guy I can think of that came close was Austin Daye at Gonzaga who went after 2 years.

Elite guards are much more plentiful and easier to nab. Truly elite big men are at a huge premium in college recruiting. Sometimes you luck out and catch a late bloomer, but otherwise the big guys that can really play are smothered by the elite BCS schools as soon as they show that level of skill.

Top 10 Center or top 10 Power Forward. 1-5 is 5 star, 6-10 is 4 star (borderline 5 star). I say borderline because 4 stars will go well into the top 20's in each of the five positions ranked.


T


...:cool:

[ShockTalk]

UNLV has a verbal from a Top 50 PF. I'm guessing he'll be in the top 10 at his position but they don't have that list up yet at Rivals. But he's #35 overall.

Harvard has a C, #66 overall, committed for next year. Although I understand that the Ivy's are different.

This year, UNLV has an incoming FR PF that is 7 overall and 1 at PF. UNLV also has a couple of 4 and 5 star wings/guards. They also have the #18 PF and 72 overall.

Fresno State has a C that is 12 at his position, so barely missed out, but 52 overall.

Last year, Charleston landed the #3 C, 28 overall.

Even Alcorn State landed a Top 100 G.

I know I've skipped previous guards who've committed to non BcS schools, but Central Michigan landed the #4 SG, 28 overall, in 2010.

FIU landed the #12 PF, 46 overall.

St. Joseph's landed the #8 C, 79 overall

In 2009, La Salle landed the #5 C, 35 overall

Akron landed the # 6 C, 43 overall

UTEP landed the #7 C, 54 overall

Charlotte landed the #24 PF, but he was 83 overall

Marshall landed the #12 C, 87 overall

UMass landed the # 27 PF, 90 overall

Fresno State landed the #13 C, 93 overall

In 2008, Nevada got the #12 PF, 31 overall.

New Mexico landed the #13 PF, 40 overall

Xavier landed the #8 C, 41 overall

SIU landed the #14 PF, 43 overall

Utah landed the #17 C, 90 overall

I thought I had one for Gonzaga in 2007, but he's was a Top 10 SF, 25 overall

UNLV landed the #5 C, 26 overall

New Mexico State had the #8 PF, 31 overall

New Mexico State also landed the #21 PF, 78 overall

Butler had the #26 PF, 91 overall

Gonzaga got the #10 C, 102 overall

In 2006, UAB landed the #18 PF, 69 overall

In 2005, Gonzaga signed a PF that was #9 PF, 39 overall

In 2003, Charlotte landed the #7 C, 39 overall

4* stopped at 75, as Valpo signed a C who was 76 overall and Cleveland State signed on that was 86 overall.

These are all 4 or 5 star recruits (Rivals) and I skipped over all the guards who went to non-BcS schools and Memphis as well. There aren't a ton, but based on this, it's becoming more common/acceptable for kids to land at non-BcS schools. There's no reason to think we can't land a big in these ranges in the future. And guards were a little more common I think.

hard to argue with that. nice post

I will. I'm sure there are a few more that could be added, but that's 33 names over 10 years. I believe there is only 4 schools listed there that are programs WSU would like to be compared to: Xavier, UNLV, Gonzaga, and Butler. Those programs account for 8 of the 33 names on that list and UNLV had 4 of them. Except for New Mexico, how many of those other teams would be labeled as successful programs over those 10 years. I propose that most of the other 24 names went to those schools for reasons other than them being a successful program. That's 75% of the total and where have their programs gone?

As I have said before, consistently signing quality, but not neccesarily Top 10s at their position, year in and year out is much more important. We had a blue chipper in Evans, and he was paired with another pretty great Shocker in Perez. How good were those teams for those 2 years? Even a player the level that X turned out to be didn't have 20 win seasons his last 2 years. Marshall is definitely on the right track to long term success, but how many Top 100 players has he gotten? I'm just not that concerned with the big splash recruit (say Top 50) as much as I am getting one or two Top 50-125 each year. Do this regularly and those lunkers may happen...Build it and they will come.

[SubGod22]

I will. I'm sure there are a few more that could be added, but that's 33 names over 10 years. I believe there is only 4 schools listed there that are programs WSU would like to be compared to: Xavier, UNLV, Gonzaga, and Butler. Those programs account for 8 of the 33 names on that list and UNLV had 4 of them. Except for New Mexico, how many of those other teams would be labeled as successful programs over those 10 years. I propose that most of the other 24 names went to those schools for reasons other than them being a successful program. That's 75% of the total and where have their programs gone?

As I have said before, consistently signing quality, but not neccesarily Top 10s at their position, year in and year out is much more important. We had a blue chipper in Evans, and he was paired with another pretty great Shocker in Perez. How good were those teams for those 2 years? Even a player the level that X turned out to be didn't have 20 win seasons his last 2 years. Marshall is definitely on the right track to long term success, but how many Top 100 players has he gotten? I'm just not that concerned with the big splash recruit (say Top 50) as much as I am getting one or two Top 50-125 each year. Do this regularly and those lunkers may happen...Build it and they will come.

But the point is, even not so successful teams have landed the types in question. Not every team is going to capitalize for whatever reason and I'm sure the schools you're referring to don't surprise anyone that they haven't had more success. I'm not sure what point that serves in this discussion though. WSU lands these kids it's something I'm sure we could build off of as we're much more likely to have success than Central Michigan. You seem to think we'll fail to land the 50-125 types by shooting for a top 50. That's ridiculous with this staff. You never know where the kid is going to come from, and very few from what I remember were local kids that stayed home. So that throws out that idea. We should always shoot for a Top 50 type if we have a connection and some mutual interest. It's only a matter of time before we land such a player. But as it is, we still haven't landed a Rivals Top 125 guy yet under Marshall. I have no doubt that we're going to see our name next to more of those recruits in the near future. Also, those guys are less of a project than many of the bigs we sign now. I'd love to have a big come in and actually be a nice contributor as a FR.

[SHOXAAC]

I sure wouldn't throw that one back. Probably keep the fish too!

Gives noodlin (hand fishing) a new meaning!