Surprised and disappointed…

[rrshock]

And still no productive big man after Gene and Brent recruited Paul Miller for Turg.

It is pretty bad when the best big man we've had in quite a while was actually recruited by coaches of another sport to WSU. I know MT had some to do with it, but Paul wanted to play baseball, and WSU was really the only place willing to let him play both.

[WuShockFan]

This thread is so stupid. The Turgeon bashing is getting old. Cold's money bags photo was funny because it was timely, but this continued obsession with the Turgeon "bare cupboard" is really lame. Are Bradley fans railing against the state of their program since the Sweet 16? Remember they went to the Sweet 16 the same time we did and their run was more impressive than ours (beating Kansas and Pitt as a 13 seed). Bradley is currently in a 6 game losing streak. Did you see any awesome recruits that they bagged because of the Sweet 16 in the game the other night? One Sweet 16 does not necessarily just generate all these high-profile recruits. Building a program and getting there consistently is what generates recruits. Mark Turgeon was a great coach but he went to one NCAA tournament in his 7 years here. It just so happened that that one NCAA tournament appearance turned into a Sweet 16.

Our Sweet 16 was made possible by a perfect confluence of events. We got a high seed, 7, and got a first round matchup with an overseeded 10 seed Seton Hall team that most people thought shouldn't have been in the tournament at all. Then we drew the most overrated 2 seed in the tournament in recent memory, a young Tennessee team. If Sean doesn't make 5 or 6 threes in that Seton Hall game, we wouldn't have coasted and could have been one-and-done. Sean was a great shooter but there were games that year and especially the next year where he went cold and didn't contribute much offense. Against Seton Hall we were lucky he had good shooting day. The Tennessee game was competitive and came down to 2 or 3 clutch plays at the end. Karon hitting that pull-up jumper, PJ hitting that 3 from the top of the key, PJ's steal and pass to Ryan for the dunk. If Karon misses that pull-up jumper, we could have lost.

Also in the Sweet 16 year we had a fifth-year Senior as a true center. The coaching staff had been working on him for five years. It wasn't like he was a freshman or sophomore. A lot of players can give a team a good year if they have five years to work on their game.

We got a lot of good things out of the Sweet 16. To say we got absolutely nothing out of the Sweet 16 is ignorant.

[ABC]

I don't think the baseball thing is the entire reason for Miller.

Duing the Sweet 16 run, I listened to an interview of Miller on 810 AM in KC.

He said he was recruited by OU, WSU and Tex Tech I think. (?). He mentioned how comfortable he was with Turgeon. He didn't once mention the baseball connection.

Miller never played basebal lin the spring. Did he ever play Fall ball?

[SpanglerFan316]

I don't think the baseball thing is the entire reason for Miller.

Duing the Sweet 16 run, I listened to an interview of Miller on 810 AM in KC.

He said he was recruited by OU, WSU and Tex Tech I think. (?). He mentioned how comfortable he was with Turgeon. He didn't once mention the baseball connection.

Miller never played basebal lin the spring. Did he ever play Fall ball?

I don't know about fall ball but I think his injury probably eliminated any plans to play baseball in the spring of his freshman year.

[BostonWu]

My point was not about what MT was going to bring in but rather exactly where he left us. I’m talking about the here and now…the reality we are left to deal with; one in which the Good Doc and pin summarized nicely.

Law – Answer me this: Who came in under better circumstances? Marshall or Jankovich? Compare the talent of returning players between the program who fired their coach and one whose coach left voluntarily. Doesn’t it seem contrary to conventional wisdom?

Why is it that Billy Clyde left MT a ready made top 10 team yet MT leaves us with a swish cheese roster? Seriously, what’s the difference between the two programs that BG and MT built? Maybe one of our expert TAMU residents (I believe RDR) can answer this because I don’t know enough about that program. But exactly how did TAMU retain all that talent when BG left? Compare that in contrast with the high-and-dry predicament MT surrendered. They appear night and day.

[BostonWu]

If Sean doesn't make 5 or 6 threes in that Seton Hall game, we wouldn't have coasted and could have been one-and-done. Sean was a great shooter but there were games that year and especially the next year where he went cold and didn't contribute much offense. Against Seton Hall we were lucky he had good shooting day.

You’ve got to be the only person who thinks we got lucky against SH. First you go on to say SH probably shouldn’t have been in the tournament, which BTW I don’t necessarily disagree with. Then you say we were lucky to win the 20 point rout, in which we lead wire-to-wire. So by that reasoning you must assume we too were lucky to get in the tournament.

We got a lot of good things out of the Sweet 16. To say we got absolutely nothing out of the Sweet 16 is ignorant.

What like an 8 game win streak to start the season and a top 10 ranking soon followed by a season-ending meltdown of epic proportions? I’d like to know exactly what good things were realized after the Sweet 16 season. And don’t come back with sold out arena because it was already there prior to S16.

Look MT did a lot of great things during his 7 years or else CGM wouldn’t be here, nor would we still have a sold out arena. That’s why I was a believer in the man. I’m just left dumbfounded by the lack of talent remaining in the shadows of a Sweet 16 season.

[RoyalShock]

What I think we got either in full, or partially from the S16 run:

- More energized fanbase.
- Games/series with LSU and Syracuse.
- Some national name recognition.
- Gregg Marshall.

[Maggie]

Boston,

I believe most of players contributing for Jankovich are seniors and juniors. The likelihood of them leaving the program was relatively small. The prior coach did recruit some good talent. Turgeon had to convince a couple of recruits to honor commitments but his roster at Texas A&M was already stacked too. You cannot compare those situations with WSU current situation without looking at Turgeon's past recruiting classes.

Whether Turgeon stayed or not I think WSU was going to go through a transition period. Turgeon leaving just made the issues worse. He left at a bad time. However, if you want to say that Turgeon did not do a good job of building the program over the past three or four years – I think there is merit to that argument. Some, if not most, of the issues that WSU now has were in Turgeon's control.

I respect and appreciate what Turgeon did for the WSU basketball program; however, the condition in which he left this team is also part of his legacy.

[WUs Your Daddy]

I think it's time to put back up that "Thanks Coach Turgeon" billboard again, but this time use a really sarcastic font.

Seriously, he saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship plain and simple. If he stayed here this season, he wasn't going to be getting any more big name job offers, he was only going to be seen as a one hit wonder. I really feel sorry for coach Marshall, he doesn't deserve this (and the money doesn't make up for it). I think the case has to be made that Illinois State fired their coach and they're in much better shape that us who had their coach hired away from them.

Honestly, I'm not sure this team is really any better than the Smithson team Turgeon inherited. I think it's become obvious that the guy either couldn't recruit, or simply didn't recruit, the type of players that were going to help us take the next step. He did a great job righting the ship with under-recruited hidden gems, but that can only take you so far, hence the drop off after a Sweet 16 year.

[lawmaker]

Dr said, --"as an entity and separate from the team, is on solid ground and even go so far as to say that it's in better shape than it has EVER been?


I think we can."


That is laughable....

[shox1989]

What I think we got either in full, or partially from the S16 run:

- More energized fanbase.
- Games/series with LSU and Syracuse.
- Some national name recognition.
- Gregg Marshall.

You forgot to add:
-only 2 games on Channel 12 this year (8 to 10 on a local TV station used to be the norm)
-little depth on the team


If we really have a more energized fan base (and I don't disagree with that) then why do we have fewer games on real local TV than we had during even the Cohen years?

The LSU 1-1-1 may be a result of the sweet 16, it may have been available anyway. But playing a one time guarantee game at a Syracuse is always available. Few shocker coaches have been willing to stoop that low to get the game (that is what low division 1 teams do).


The national name recognition was short and sweet and it hasn't translated into more TV or more recruits (yet anyway).

I totally agree with getting Marshall.

[newshock1234]

and what even makes it more sicken is watching turgeon coach a stacked Texas A &M team who is enjoying great sucess, while that going on we are suffering from turgeon recruiting mishaps.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Dr said, --"as an entity and separate from the team, is on solid ground and even go so far as to say that it's in better shape than it has EVER been?


I think we can."


That is laughable....

You are laughable. I agree with Doc

[ABC]

Honestly, I'm not sure this team is really any better than the Smithson team Turgeon inherited. .

I think criticism of the recruiting during MT's last few years has merit.

The statement above does not.

I think MT knew recruiting hit a skid which is why he brought on Spinelli. I think Boyle lost focus on recruiting when he was informed he would not replace MT if and when he left.

What is happening at WSU right now has happened to other programs when their coach doesn't leave and didn't do a good job recruiting during a certain timeframe. And obviously it happens when coaches leave. What did K-State do to leverage their Elite 8 run in 1988? 1 NCAA tourney since then.

What has Maryland done to leverage 2 FFs and a championship? Syracuse? How will Florida do after 2 championships in a row? Where are all of SIUs great recruits after all of their success in the last 5 years.

Except for mostly elite programs, there is always a bit of an ebb and flow. However, our performance in a few of these games, especially MSU, is a bit concerning and frustrating.

RE: the TV commnets. Does it really matter if it is on Ch 22 or local broadcast when most folks have cable anyway? Dish doesn't get either, do they? (Ch 22 or local broadcast)

[RoyalShock]

Dish and DirecTV offer local channels. But not 22.

22 gets a wider reach due to it getting on a cable network. But I would argue that a sizable portion of the Wichita area does not get Cox 22 due to having satellite or only locals.

If the games would get moved to 12, most of central, western and southeastern Kansas would get the games. The only advantage I really see to using 22, is the few games the KC area gets. Otherwise, I dont' think a few regular season games are going to expand the fanbase in Tulsa or OKC.

That's my $.02.