Blame Game

[Stickboy46]

Two things can be true at the same time. The slide absolutely began with Marshall. IB may or may not be the guy to right the ship.

Firing him this season turns our program into a basket case. If IB is terminated for performance expect to be in the wilderness for a good long while even if we hit a home run with the next coaching hire.

This ...

There are lots of reasons for concern. Not going to doubt that. But realistically HCIB has been on the job what ... 13-14 months at this point? He took over mid November last year on an interim basis? He's had 1 full offseason to be a head coach. So far his recruiting has been hit and miss. 1 hit (Pohto) and 2 appear to be misses (Grant and Pleasant). Though Grant might still become serviceable. Offense hasn't looked great, but it didn't look great the last 2 years of Marshall's tenure either (and that's backed up by KenPom). So yea ..we need to see improvement but the people on the ledge calling for his job are just being a little insane.

If we want to crater our program permanently .. go ahead and fire HCIB (if we could even find the money). I'm sure you will have great coaches lined up to take a job, that can't afford to pay much because we are already paying 2 coaches and that just fired a coach coming off an AAC title (covid helped or not) and Coach of the year because he's 9-4 to start the year. Might as well shut the program down if we do that because we won't be hiring anyone worthwhile at that point.

Anyone that is advocating for firing HCIB is living in lala land where there aren't repercussions for your actions.

[Stickboy46]

You are just hopeless.

Lol I'm convinced you are part of the Marshall family at this point.

[cjp27]

2. ADDB and IB were handed a difficult situation. IB and the team made the absolute best of it by winning the conference. Major kudos to them, but it was the curse in disguise.

I can't agree with this point enough. Prior to the last two games last year, we were 8-0 or something crazy in games decided by less than 5 points, which was great at the time. I'm not saying it was lucky, but you're typically going to win about 50% of those. So, let's say they lost a couple of those close ones, then there is no conference title, no NCAA. Everyone thanks IB for stepping in and making the best of a bad situation, and then he gets a head coaching job in a smaller conference and maybe grows into a good head coach. Instead he gets handed the keys to a perennial top 40 program.

I pretty much agree DB had no choice but to hire him. He would have been crucified by the national media had he not. We got the instant gratification of a league title and NCAA bid and the program will likely be in worse shape for it.

I hope IB succeeds, and maybe will, but I have no confidence at this point.

I guess we'll see what type of recruits he brings in. Judging by the other schools that are recruiting some of his top targets (which I know is a lazy way to look at things) I am not overly impressed.

Can IB energize a fan base and donors? I haven't seen it yet. That's almost as important as recruiting and x's and o's and I think probably part of the reason for poor attendance.

Can he sell recruits to come and play here for him rather than GM? I guess we'll see.

My guess is he's guaranteed next year regardless, and he's on the hot seat if next year is worse than this. I truly hope I am wrong with all of this and IB is successful here for a long time, but I see nothing that gives me any reason to believe that's going to be the case.

[rjl]

There are actually those who believe this is a Marshall problem?! The program has regressed infinitely since his dismissal. It's Issac Brown and Isaac Brown alone. He's in WAY over his head

You think this team was great, then Marshall left, then the team was bad?

Revisionist much?

[Stickboy46]

IB hasn't fully corrected it yet? I can't understand that statement at all. Things are definitely going the wrong way and not getting better. The team on the floor today is not as good as the team that took the floor last year after they forced Marshall out. Also, the confidence that surrounded the team when Marshall was the coach is gone. They looked beat long before the game was over against Memphis. When was the last time we lost 2 games in a row at home by double digits and 1 of them was a buy game. Give me a break.

I 100% agree with the confidence part. At least from the halftime at the Memphis game. That is the most concerning thing to me. If that continues, yes that is a problem. As of right now we have 1 half of one game where the team really lacked confidence. I'd even say by the end of the game they were back fighting. It was really about 10 minutes between the end of the first and start of the second where it looked like they gave up. So that is definitely something to monitor though a road game at Houston probably isn't going to change that (nor did Marshall ever really have success there).

As far as the "yet" comment. I think that was misunderstood. He hasn't corrected the problem. Will he? I dunno, but i'm not in the camp that all hope is lost because of a couple bad games. Especially considering both of those two teams (including the buy game) are ranking 20+ spots higher than us in the NET (they are ranked 52 and 54). They were Q2 games ... not some crazy Q4 loss. If we are going to call for coaches jobs after a couple bad games we wont have a program at all. No coach will sign up for that. We no longer can pay a good coach better than his other options.

Also ... i 100% challenge the "confidence that surrounded the team when Marshall was the coach is gone". What confidence? was it the confidence that led half the team to transfer? There was zero confidence coming into 2020-2021 around this team.

So yes, there are lots to be concerned about, not doubting that. Just saying that firing the coach as many appear to want to do is 1000000% the wrong choice. Say goodbye to any chance of success if we do.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

I'm neither advocating for or against ADDB with this post, but I feel like there is some revisionist history or lack of reason going on here. And I'm going to preface this by stating that I believe the allegations against Marshall are true for reasons that don't need to be rehashed here.

1. Eric Sexton was the AD when the incident with Shaq happened. Assuming he knew about it, it's his failure to not have dealt with it then. ADDB couldn't have done anything about it until it came to light publicly. Then, once Marshall denied the allegations, there was no outcome that didn't involve Marshall either resigning or getting fired. Either of which was going to cost dearly in terms of money and image. Lay that whole debacle at the feet of Marshall and Sexton.

Actually I think Boatright was considered the AD at the time of the incident. He didn't officially become the AD until 2016 but was the interim one since April 2015 and the Shaq incident happened in October 2015. When his contract was extended through 2022, Muma said "President Bardo and I believe Darron has done an excellent job since taking over the department in April 2015." (https://goshockers.com/news/2019/2/7...ract-extension)

[RoyalShock]

Actually I think Boatright was considered the AD at the time of the incident. He didn't officially become the AD until 2016 but was the interim one since April 2015 and the Shaq incident happened in October 2015. When his contract was extended through 2022, Muma said "President Bardo and I believe Darron has done an excellent job since taking over the department in April 2015." (https://goshockers.com/news/2019/2/7...ract-extension)

Ah, ok. I remember having found a news article from 2016 about his hiring but didn't remember he was interim for that long. I think the point remains. An interim AD absolutely could not make the call to fire a successful coach.

[Shockm]

Gregg Marshall: 14 NCAAs / 1 Final 4 / 1 S16 / 4 R 32 / 3 NITs / 1 Championship / 1 Semi.

Add to GM’s accomplishments:

Wins overall. 525-204 72%
Wichita State Wins. 331-121 73%. Most wins and highest winning percentage in WSU history by far.

Isaac Brown Defenders, and Marshall critics (Many if you are both).

Answer this question.
Does anyone here have the belief or confidence that Brown will have the accomplishments listed above?

I hope Brown can turn this year around, but have no confidence, and I don’t think there is a chance that he accomplishes what Marshall did.

[Dan]

I'm not as worried about the recruiting part as I am the coaching part. Between IB and Waterman, they recruited most of the guys on this team personally. It's what they do with those guys after they get on campus is my concern. We have at least 4 guys that have been called NBA potential at one time or another (DD, TE, Pohto and RCIV). So far, 3 of them are trending in the wrong direction.

[SubGod22]

I'm not sure many, if anyone, is advocating for IB to be fired now. I think many are advocating for DB to go away so that if IB continues to flounder we have someone in place to make a new hire when the time comes.

I wasn't happy that there was absolutely no coaching search at all. Nobody asked for it to be done in the middle of the season.

Hiring someone based solely on optics is a **** way to go about deciding who is going to take over the program that is the face of the school.

Had a coaching search been done and IB was said to be the best candidate, there may still be questions, but fewer people would be upset about the process.

The team looks horrible. There is no sign of improvement outside of bearing up on a glorified D1 team. This team has no apparent leadership, on the court or on the bench. IB doesn't have to be 3G, but he absolutely has to change how he's doing things and maybe start holding players accountable for making the same dumb decisions over and over. Maybe try something different since what he's doing sure as hell isn't working.

I never expected to win the conference this year, but the way we've played, outside of Arizona, is going to have us in the bottom half and that's simply not good enough.

If nothing changes, it's going to be a very long three years.

DB needs to go regardless.

[rjl]

Add to GM’s accomplishments:

Wins overall. 525-204 72%
Wichita State Wins. 331-121 73%. Most wins and highest winning percentage in WSU history by far.

Isaac Brown Defenders, and Marshall critics (Many if you are both).

Answer this question.
Does anyone here have the belief or confidence that Brown will have the accomplishments listed above?

I hope Brown can turn this year around, but have no confidence, and I don’t think there is a chance that he accomplishes what Marshall did.

Right now, who knows. But probably not.

Part of the deal when you are a team like Wichita State is you have to take risks on coaches the same as you have to take risks on players. You aren't hiring Brad Stevens the same as you aren't signing the next Zion Williamson. You've got to take a risk and hope the coach grows and gets better, the same as you have to recruit 3 and 4-star guys and hope they become the FVVs or Ron Bakers.

Problem is, it seems Isaac Brown is regressing as a coach. I have no idea how you can look at a 13-minute scoring drought in a buy game and not think coaching is a big part of the problem. Our offense works well so long as someone is hot, but our offense doesn't do anything to help players score if they are cold. Many of our wins this season required outstanding play from Etienne or someone else, and we've been short on outstanding play the last few games.

Given our current financial situation, we're stuck with IB for a few more years, at least. It's entirely possible he grows, learns, and becomes a great coach. It's entirely possible he does not. We'll just have to see.

[cjp27]

I'm not as worried about the recruiting part as I am the coaching part. Between IB and Waterman, they recruited most of the guys on this team personally. It's what they do with those guys after they get on campus is my concern. We have at least 4 guys that have been called NBA potential at one time or another (DD, TE, Pohto and RCIV). So far, 3 of them are trending in the wrong direction.

Fair, but DD, TE, and RCIV were recruited to play for GM by IB and Waterman. Will good players come here to play for IB the head coach, rather than GM the head coach? Pohto seems to be a good get. Qua and Joe are epic misses to this point in my mind. Maybe Qua will get better. Joe is what he is as far as I can tell. The only other two on the roster that came here to play for IB the head coach are redshirting, so we don't know anything there yet.

Agree 3 of the 4 you mentioned are headed in the wrong direction.

[Stickboy46]

I'm not sure many, if anyone, is advocating for IB to be fired now. I think many are advocating for DB to go away so that if IB continues to flounder we have someone in place to make a new hire when the time comes.

I wasn't happy that there was absolutely no coaching search at all. Nobody asked for it to be done in the middle of the season.

Hiring someone based solely on optics is a **** way to go about deciding who is going to take over the program that is the face of the school.

Had a coaching search been done and IB was said to be the best candidate, there may still be questions, but fewer people would be upset about the process.

The team looks horrible. There is no sign of improvement outside of bearing up on a glorified D1 team. This team has no apparent leadership, on the court or on the bench. IB doesn't have to be 3G, but he absolutely has to change how he's doing things and maybe start holding players accountable for making the same dumb decisions over and over. Maybe try something different since what he's doing sure as hell isn't working.

I never expected to win the conference this year, but the way we've played, outside of Arizona, is going to have us in the bottom half and that's simply not good enough.

If nothing changes, it's going to be a very long three years.

DB needs to go regardless.

I can get behind firing DB ... as i'm sure most can lol.

[Stickboy46]

Add to GM’s accomplishments:

Wins overall. 525-204 72%
Wichita State Wins. 331-121 73%. Most wins and highest winning percentage in WSU history by far.

Isaac Brown Defenders, and Marshall critics (Many if you are both).

Answer this question.
Does anyone here have the belief or confidence that Brown will have the accomplishments listed above?

I hope Brown can turn this year around, but have no confidence, and I don’t think there is a chance that he accomplishes what Marshall did.

I don't expect any coach to do that ... Though straight win percentages is misleading as a target. MVC vs AAC is gonna by default add more losses but hopefully better seeding (though who know with the "new" AAC)

[rjl]

I'm not really sure what DB has done that's so terrible, though. He's had several big "decisions" that were really no decision at all.

HCGM was bigger than DB ever was, so there was nothing DB could ever do about his behavior other than try to contain it, which he did. Anything more than that, DB is out of a job.

The news focuses on how big of an ass HCGM is and the accusations of player treatment, and DB has no choice but to get rid of Marshall. I'd actually be astonished if it was DB's choice at all.

HCIB takes over and proceeds to win the AAC regular season (no matter how fortunate the cards fell in our favor) and AAC COY honors. WSU would have looked like colossal asses had we not given HCIB the permanent position at that point. Maybe DB never interviewed anyone else; maybe he did. But that was a "decision" with no choice by the end of the regular season.