The Legend FVV

[Dan]

Is FVV’s pro career putting him at the level to be considered the greatest Shocker of all time?

Historical discussion has always been Dave and X. Fred may be taking over.

[Shockm]

Is FVV’s pro career putting him at the level to be considered the greatest Shocker of all time?

Historical discussion has always been Dave and X. Fred may be taking over.

He probably has passed up Dave, whose heart problems as a young man, limited his greatness from what was expected at the beginning of his Pro career. Without his heart problems, he might have been a big All Pro player. However, Fred hasn't surpassed X yet (who was an All Star a couple or several years) imo. The main difference was that they were both drafted early in the first round, while Fred was a FA. However, Fred has had a career of a first rounder. Fred still needs to be an All Star, several times, first before saying he is the best pro from WSU.

[Dan]

Yes, X is hard to top. He was only an All-Star once though and was also 2nd in voting for Rookie of the Year. He played 12 seasons, so Fred does have a ways to go.
X had a great individual college season when he lead the country in scoring and rebounding, while Fred went to a Final 4 and lead a team to a 35-0 record. I’m thinking Fred is up there at or close to X level.

[WuDrWu]

Is FVV’s pro career putting him at the level to be considered the greatest Shocker of all time?

Historical discussion has always been Dave and X. Fred may be taking over.

Tough call. It seems in the history of sports, in general (not always) that a large plurality of folks, mostly because of eyes on, believe today's athletes are superior to previous ones.

Greatest Shocker can be taken so many ways and each fan probably has their own definition and that's fine.

This will probably be a debate that lives forever....and I think that's a good thing. Just their college careers? Include pro careers? Team success? Position they played? What they did outside of basketball, in general, for Wichita State and or the area?

All I know is that ANY discussion of the greatest Shocker of all time HAS to include Fred. And he needs to be in the rafters asap.




What Fred has done outside of basketball since leaving WSU (and I have my own opinions on many things that aren't going to be rehashed here) deserve merit and should be included. And I realize it's a different time and place than other players lived through, and in many ways, paved so that players like Fred could have the opportunities to do things today.

[BostonWu]

Is Fred the richest Shocker athlete of all time? Without looking not sure if there are baseball players (Dreifort was so long ago) that made more. And no the Big Show doesn't count.

[BOBB]

X is the leader in the clubhouse, but Fred is on a tear at the turn.

X, Cliff and Carr all had decade plus careers. Even adjusting for inflation Fred has to have made magnitudes more money than those guys combined already.

[ShockerFever]

How long does it take to get a number retired? Into the HoF at the very least?

[Kung Wu]

How long does it take to get a number retired? Into the HoF at the very least?

So I used to think they should do it quicker, but now I believe they should take their time -- at least to the point that he is still competing in the NBA and has Olympic team prospects, etc. It's cooler when you bring someone into the HoF with a complete list of lifetime achievements in the sport. FVV's will be jaw dropping when that's done.

So from that perspective, I would expect (hope) to see Ron Baker's number retired well before FVV's.

[Kung Wu]

How many NBA championship rings does X have? Not saying that's the final verdict, because it's obviously not, but FVV was instrumental in winning that NBA championship. Doesn't Cliff have a couple? Anybody else have one?

[BostonWu]

How many NBA championship rings does X have? Not saying that's the final verdict, because it's obviously not, but FVV was instrumental in winning that NBA championship. Doesn't Cliff have a couple? Anybody else have one?

Stallworth

[Stickboy46]

I vote when we hang the banner we have a custom made one that looks like this 20211112-fred-vanvleet.jpg

[Signman]

How many NBA championship rings does X have? Not saying that's the final verdict, because it's obviously not, but FVV was instrumental in winning that NBA championship. Doesn't Cliff have a couple? Anybody else have one?

Nate Bowman got one with Stallworth didn't he?

Roster

1969-1970 Knicks championship team roster

Dick Barnett	SG	6-4	190	October 2, 1936	us	9	Tennessee State
Nate Bowman	C	6-10	230	March 19, 1943	us	3	Wichita State
Bill Bradley	SF	6-5	205	July 28, 1943	us	2	Princeton
Dave DeBusschere	PF	6-6	220	October 16, 1940	us	7	Detroit Mercy
Walt Frazier	PG	6-4	200	March 29, 1945	us	2	Southern Illinois
Bill Hosket	PF	6-8	225	December 20, 1946	us	1	Ohio State
Don May	SF	6-4	200	January 3, 1946	us	1	Dayton
Willis Reed	C	6-9	235	June 25, 1942	us	5	Grambling State University
Mike Riordan	SG	6-4	200	July 9, 1945	us	1	Providence
Cazzie Russell	SF	6-5	218	June 7, 1944	us	3	Michigan
Dave Stallworth	SF	6-7	200	December 20, 1941	us	2	Wichita State
John Warren	SG	6-3	180	July 7, 1947	us	R	St. John's

[Kung Wu]

Nate Bowman got one with Stallworth didn't he?

Roster

1969-1970 Knicks championship team roster

Nice! So we have four? Bowman, Stallworth, Levingston, and Van Vleet? Any others?

[shoxlax]

Nice! So we have four? Bowman, Stallworth, Levingston, and Van Vleet? Any others?

Warren Jabali had an ABA title. Don’t discount that too much because there were some legit NBA all stars playing in the ABA then.

[shoxlax]

Nice! So we have four? Bowman, Stallworth, Levingston, and Van Vleet? Any others?

Gene Wiley made it to the finals twice with the Lakers but couldn’t get past the Celtics.