What is a National Championship really worth...

[1972Shocker]

No brainer. National Championship. Just ask Gene Stephenson.

Not sure what a FCS football program (once we build up to that) really does for you. If the fans would support it, it would be a nice addition to campus life but bringing football back also carries a real risk of damaging your overal athletic program.

[SubGod22]

It also opens doors to bigger and better conferences which leads to more money for everyone in the AD.

[1972Shocker]

It also opens doors to bigger and better conferences which leads to more money for everyone in the AD.

Yes, potentially but this is not anything that can be predicted with any certainty.

[SubGod22]

Yes, potentially but this is not anything that can be predicted with any certainty.

Neither is the flip side that you stated.

[kcshocker11]

I'll tell you what its worth- a lifetime of B-slapping a bunch of goof balls in blue and red and ugly purple who thumb their collective noses at Our Shocks!:poster_wu:

[KC Shox]

National Championship talk? Crack is whack people.

[ripemupshocks]

...to a major team trapped in a mid-major conference? Butler reached the Final Four two years in a row and made it one game short of a National Championship. How has their program changed? Are they getting looks from Burger Boys now? In the past, we talked endlessly about making our Sweet 16 appearance pay off... right. If we had duplicated Butler's run we would be talking about changing the name of KU's campus to the University of Wichita at Lawrence. The bottom line is this, short of a ton of t-shirts being sold and a huge temporary boost of pride, next year nobody cares because you are in the Mo Valley. Even the windfall of NCAA tourney cash has to be spread out among all the welfare teams of the league like E-ville, INSU, NIU, and Drake, who instead of reinvesting in their program, will most likely take their share to pay the electric bill.

Players you recruit want to know what you are doing NEXT year, not what you did last year. Now, if you are making a nice little run in the tournament every year that is a different story. What I'm talking about is getting hot a couple years in a row or making one huge run. I think it helps beating out teams in your league for recruits that are "at your level", but allowing you to start adding more top 100 players... afraid not. Most people would just be thankful of a flash in the pan year, but many Wichita State fans are like me and think the program is a helluva lot more than it has been showing over the last two decades.

This brings me to my point of the thread; I would trade a National Championship for a football team and a new conference. Let's say that this year we have the run of our lives and win it all. I would trade that for a one-and-done in the tourney if we could magically have football and/or a better conference. I'm not even a football fan. We have to get out of this conference ASAP. I would even prefer being independent if that is remotely feasible. And change the name back to Wichita University (WU) like it was back in the 1920's.

That is all...


T


...:cool:

It looks like YOU JUST WANT FOOTBALL. JUST GIVE ME FOOTBALL. I DON'T CARE WHAT IT COSTS, I WANT MY FOOTBALL. I think your last paragraph is most telling. You seem to be willing to settle for a mediocre at best basketball program so long as you have football. But you don't state what level of football. If you're talking about the level of football we had prior to 1986, then you're describing mediocre football at best. So maybe you'd be happy with, at best, mediocre basketball and football programs. Would you also be happy with all of the debt that would bring to the athletic department. If memory serves, back in the early 80's when we had a terrible football program and a great basketball program, the athletic dept was in the red every season with ever mounting debt. If you want a top level football program, which WSU would never see, not with only 15,000 fans sitting in a broken down 30,000 seat stadium, that's even more debt. And once you add the two, three, or four additional women's programs to even out the ships, that's even more debt. Even if you go out and find a big money WSU sugar daddy like OSU did with T. Boone, in this day and age of $15,000,000.00 per season football programs, you'd burn thru his money pretty quick, at which point you'd start running up..............anyone?..............anyone?...... .....that's right, more debt.

And then you go on to suggest WSU go independent. Are you aware, since the creation of division 1-A in 1978 there have been approximately fifty football programs that have been independent? Care to guess how many there are now? Four. FOUR. And that's only because BYU just went independent. Army and Navy won't be able to hold out for much longer. That will leave ND and BYU. Why do you think all of those teams joined conferences? Go independent. Who you gonna play? No one. That's who. So what does that mean? MORE DEBT!

And then you suggest changing from WSU back to WU. Why? Are you suggesting we revert to a municipal university? Do you understand why they changed from a private Fairmount College to a municipal WU in the first place? That's right...........Debt!

And just so you know, I grew up playing football. My sons grew up playing football. I even had two uncles who played D1-A college football back in the day. Prior to its demise, I saw more WSU football games than I can count. I love football. But frankly Cold, I find all of your suggestions to be not only detrimental to the athletic department, but to the University as a hole.

But if you do happen to find a sugar daddy for WSU, It'll be fun while it lasts.

[_kai_]

I wish the last paragraph was the first paragraph, because after I read "I'd trade a national championship for a football team and a new conference" I just stopped reading.

That. Is. Insanity.

You can't be serious, can you?

[60Shock]

I'll tell you what I think winning the NCAA National Basketball Championship means and what is it worth?

It's the whole SHEBANG! It's like the 4th of July and Xmas all rolled into one. It's being anointed as the King, like winning the Lottery, the Jackpot, the World Series, or Super Bowl. The Wichita State Shockers' name would forever (well nothing is forever, but you get the drift) be associated with being a national champion in Basketball. Just yesterday I met a new neighbor and he asked me where I went to school. His comment was, "Oh, yeah, I remember when your boys won the National Baseball Championship and also when you whipped us (Florida State)."

So the most important thing probably would be the "Big Name" reputation that would be associated with Wichita's BB program.

The difficulty is of course how do you measure it?

1. Would we afterwards fill the rafters with fans requiring an expansion of Koch or the playing of most games downtown? Probably only if we could maintain a consistent program with frequent visits to the NCAA tournament. Not one every five years. We need to start stringing them one after the other.

2. Will opportunities improve across the board concerning scheduling and recruiting? Scheduling should definitely improve. Who doesn't want to knock off a recent NCAA Champ? Plus, it is certainly no disgrace to lose to one within a reasonable period of time after the accomplishment. And the most gratifying experience would be to tell KU to go stuff it when they came sniffing around for a game.

3. Would we benefit financially? Probably not tremendously. Likely to be more national TV game exposure at least for the following year which certainly would help.

The tangibles and intangiblesare would be that some revenues would be realized perhaps through more of our games being televised. Plus, scheduling would significantly be improved for a few years afterwards and would continue as long at we were able to consistently return to the dance.

But the major worth of the Shockers winning a National Championship simply boils down to one single word which no one can stick a price tag on. And that word is: PRIDE!

Pride in Wichita State University Pride in the Shockers - Pride in the entire team - Pride in the individual players - Pride in our head coach and the entire coaching staff - and Pride in all of fans who support and attend the home games, travel to the road games, and to the entire Shocker Nation.

[Rlh04d]

Pretty dumb question, and one that we're not much of in a position to ask.

I don't think a national championship is even the question. Consistent success is what we should be shooting for. A NT title is great, but just being a program that makes the tournament every year and consistently wins the MVC is what would really be important. Anything that keeps Marshall as WSU coach next year is big in insuring we have continued success, though.

As for football, I don't even see why it matters that much. Having a competent football program would matter in that WSU is not likely to get into a big conference without one. However, we're not going to build a good football program in Kansas even within the first ten years after starting a program. I would think a bad football program would hurt WSU's image more than having no football team.

You could also look at the Top 25 in basketball and see how many schools are relevant in both football and basketball. You have the Big 10 schools, no doubt ... Other than that, Missouri is an average football program, you have FSU, Florida, And Notre Dame. That's about 8 of the top 25 teams that have anything that matters in football. 17 schools are dominated by basketball programs. What does having a football program matter to them?

One step at a time. Win the Valley every two to three years. I don't see how we're in a position to talk about moving up from the Valley until we consistently win it.

[JJClamdip]

Cold is right about the need for football.

The last time the Shockers were in the final four the University had football.

We will never get there again without it.

Shocker football alive in 2013!

[RoyalShock]

Turmoil seems to infect most college football programs on a fairly regular basis (multiple players breaking the law, getting suspended, coaches covering up bad behavior, questionable recruiting tactics, etc). I think that is largely inevitable due to the sheer numbers and personalities that come with a football program. I don't want to see that anywhere near Wichita State.


I'll take the NC, even if it means we're in the Valley forever.

[shoxlax]

Cold is right about the need for football.

The last time the Shockers were in the final four the University had football.

We will never get there again without it.

Shocker football alive in 2013!

The old pot stirrer returns.

[WstateU]

National Championship talk? Crack is whack people.

Better yet, let’s aspire to be back-to-back-to-back-to-back................................. NIT Champions. We also need a ‘new’ coach that doesn’t shoot for the stars… someone who doesn’t have unreasonable & unrealistic (at least in your eyes) expectations. I give you Butler, VCU & GMU... yes, they each had a chance to win a NC.

Oh, I’ll bet my left nut that coach Marshall believes he can win a National Championship here, there and anywhere.

By the way, ‘Cold’ is a ‘major league’ rabble-rouser and I’ll give you credit for being a ‘semi-pro’. Although JJ tries very hard, he’s just a wannabe rookie leaguer.

[ShockerPrez]

I don't want to leave the Valley, we still have about 30 years of consecutive *** kicking of these guys before we can mercifully end their misery by leaving the conference.

I'll take the national championship, and then collectively moon all of the 'Big Time' Schools that don't have one.