2021 TBT

[Shockm]

I've never understood the argument of let the players decide the game. If they foul, they foul. And that's deciding the outcome of the game. If you don't call a foul a foul just because it's at the end of the game, the ref has taken it out of the players hands.

Then why weren't more fouls called when there were obvious fouls earlier? Did the referees decide the outcome in those cases?

The last game, the lack of an OBVIOUS charging call on the other team almost decided the game. This call was NOT obvious, and many on this board don't agree even after seeing the replay many times. That's when referees need to not enter the picture.

[CBB_Fan]

I'm an Elam ending convert after these three games. In each case, basketball was played to the end of the game. I have watched many college games where that isn't the case, and the last two minutes of the game stretched into an eternity of timeouts and free throws that doesn't resemble the rest of the game at all. This isn't quite the same in the NBA, which can still stretch out games but doesn't have the 1-and-1 that really forces the issue at this level. That said I recognize that buzzer beaters, while rare, are some of the coolest and most memorable moments in all of sports and that it isn't the same.

This game shows however that the Elam ending can deliver incredible moments itself. There is a tension in the ending that isn't present when you have the ball up 1 late in a college game. At any point, your failure to score can give your opponent the chance to win. A late in the clock scenario in college basketball can give only a few scant chances for the game to flip on its head. This game had what felt like a dozen as each team had a chance to land the finishing blow. The balancing act on the knife's edge made this particularly memorable.

The only change I'd make to the Elam ending is a requirement to win by 2. As another poster mentioned early, informal basketball figured this out long ago. This could extend games a bit, but it adds back in some of the tactical scenarios that taking out a game clock loses. And fundamentally, I think it will give less games decided on a foul call and needing to make a single FT to win.

[SubGod22]

I've never understood the argument of let the players decide the game. If they foul, they foul. And that's deciding the outcome of the game. If you don't call a foul a foul just because it's at the end of the game, the ref has taken it out of the players hands.

[Shockm]

100% charge.

He was leaning back as he moved into him. There was movement, and that same call is not called the same everytime.

[SHOXAAC]

That call could have gone either way. I don't argue (NOW) with the referee's judgement, because we won. The only problem that I still have with the call, is that USUALLY at that juncture of the game (I mean without the Elam Ending that is a last second call), referees swallow their whistle, and allow the players to determine the outcome. Usually allowing the players the opportunity to determine the outcome is the right call, therefore, the referee blew it imo.

Wrong...the players did decide it by getting in a solid defensive position to draw a foul that was called correctly.

[Shockm]

It's 100% without question a charge. You want the referees to swallow their whistles to let a team win the game on a clear violation? That makes absolutely zero sense.

They usually do on a bang bang call like that. Have you watched the Tournament. During this game, they didn't call many fouls that they could have called, and some of them were obvious. That is using their judgement. Don't be naïve. Referees do it all the time.

[SHOXAAC]

Incredible game. So glad we are able to host these games in the dog days of summer.

Can anyone who watched on TV comment on the first Frankamp game winner they waived off due to a “charge”?

100% charge.

[Horn28Clem30]

That call could have gone either way. I don't argue (NOW) with the referee's judgement, because we won. The only problem that I still have with the call, is that USUALLY at that juncture of the game (I mean without the Elam Ending that is a last second call), referees swallow their whistle, and allow the players to determine the outcome. Usually allowing the players the opportunity to determine the outcome is the right call, therefore, the referee blew it imo.

It's 100% without question a charge. You want the referees to swallow their whistles to let a team win the game on a clear violation? That makes absolutely zero sense.

[Shockm]

My daughter was taking video of the play. I watched it several times. It was a good call.

That call could have gone either way. I don't argue (NOW) with the referee's judgement, because we won. The only problem that I still have with the call, is that USUALLY at that juncture of the game (I mean without the Elam Ending that is a last second call), referees swallow their whistle, and allow the players to determine the outcome. Usually allowing the players the opportunity to determine the outcome is the right call, therefore, the referee blew it imo.

[Shockm]

HCGM has his insane legacy, but WSU fans showing up to unorthodox basketball events is baked in the cake.

You're whole statement is correct, but to add to GM's contribution,

The F4, Elite 8's, and Sweet 16's during GM's tenure kept the money flowing from wealthy community boosters (who weren't necessarily WSU boosters), season tickets sold out, gave us the opportunity to move up in conferences, and allowed our innovative late University President (the wealth) to build world renown business buildings, hotels, restaurants, and create a national following that we haven't known since the 60's, and maybe for a brief time in the 80's.

While some of this occurred during other era's, it wasn't to the extent of the past 12 years. While some people grew tired of GM's personality (relentlessness), and it may have changed some in a negative manner, over his tenure at WSU, no one had a problem with his relentlessness during the first 7 or 8 years, nor doubted his commitment to the program or city. His contribution should not be minimized, and most of us know he deserves his accolades.

[SubGod22]

Zach is a pretty elite defender. The only thing that has kept him from the NBA, in my opinion, is his ability to consistently knock down the three ball, which appears to still be an issue.

[Shockm]

But I don’t think the foul count resets at the start of the elem ending. So you wouldn’t want to be over the limit going into the elem ending. I’m not 100 percent sure on how this rule works.

Being below the number of fouls we needed, allowed Zach Brown to get really physical on the last couple of possessions and force the officials to call a foul, which they didn't.

[DJShocker10]

Did anyone catch what the chirping was about between the teams early in the game? Wanting to think it was just before the start of the 2nd quarter. Looked like Bush was trying to separate McDuffie from one of their guys..

[pie n eye]

Elam Ending in college basketball or NBA is the worst idea in the history of western civilization. I mean, it’s a lot of fun for a novelty tournament, don’t get me wrong. I very much enjoy the Elam Ending, but not at the expense of buzzer beaters. No, Elam does not guarantee every game ends in a buzzer beater. You can’t have a buzzer beater without a buzzer. Not the same at all.

If they take buzzer beaters away from the NCAA tournament, I will cry forever

I really like the Elam ending and I think it’s the better way to finish a game, all things being equal.

I’m also kind of a traditionalist and enjoy some variety so I’m not 100% convinced I would change NBA and NCAA.

I understand you’re a Twitter account and the point of Twitter, especially fake accounts, is to be as extreme and hyperbolic as possible. But from 1977-2019 there were only 32 buzzer beaters in the NCAA tournament.

A game is far more likely to grind to a halt and end in an over long free throw and foul fest than feature an exciting buzzer beater.

[pie n eye]

The defender doesn’t have to be totally set. Look at the play earlier in the game when Hannah took a charge, he wasn’t set at all but the ball handler barreled into him.

Correct but the defender can’t slide in after the player begins their shooting motion (as far as I know) which is what it looked like to me. I watched the broadcast after I got home last night and in slow mo I agreed more with the call.

Great back door play, great defense and great officiating it turns out.