What's up with our shooting?

[wu_shizzle]

Over the last several years there have been many threads on ValleyTalk about SIU's shooting woes.

My contributions to those threads have always been that there's only so much practice time. Concentrate the practices on D and it takes away from practice time to work on offense and shooting.

There's a tradeoff between defense and offense. Most teams can excel at one or the other, but not both. Marshall has taken WSU to an emphasis on D.

Maybe Marshall looked at the players he had and decided WSU was better suited to winning games by preventing scoring rather than by scoring. Concentration on D in practices limits time concentrating on scoring. Generally, you're going to get one or the other and not both.

Marshall opted for D. Shooting is going to suffer until the team gets the D right and can start practicing some O.

Good teams can play offense and defense at a high level.

You're setting up some sort of false dilemma where the two can't co-exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

[BostonWu]

Over the last several years there have been many threads on ValleyTalk about SIU's shooting woes.

My contributions to those threads have always been that there's only so much practice time. Concentrate the practices on D and it takes away from practice time to work on offense and shooting.

There's a tradeoff between defense and offense. Most teams can excel at one or the other, but not both. Marshall has taken WSU to an emphasis on D.

Maybe Marshall looked at the players he had and decided WSU was better suited to winning games by preventing scoring rather than by scoring. Concentration on D in practices limits time concentrating on scoring. Generally, you're going to get one or the other and not both.

Marshall opted for D. Shooting is going to suffer until the team gets the D right and can start practicing some O.

Actually I think you’re on to something. CGM took a look at the hand that was dealt to him and figured the best chance to win was on D. The bottom line is there are no pure shooters on this team, unlike in pervious seasons with Wilson and Ogirri. IMO, in most cases you can only improve shooting so much in a season. I’d even argue you are what you are as a jump shooter when you enter the program. There are some players on the roster that have shown for nearly 3 seasons they cannot shoot from the outside – tough to argue with 2.5 years of historical data. CGM knows this and also knows he needs to recruit some “makers”…hopefully they’re on the way. In the meantime this team has to win with ugly D.

[JVShocker_old]

Agree that offense and defense can exist in harmony, but that if you practice one more than the other, you will be a "little off" on the other. But I also agree that we simply don't have the (can we finally call them?) "makers" in the program right now. The only real threat is out indefinitely.

Finally, if a player or coach is reading Shockernet, well they've got bigger issues and should move on to something else - (unless PJ reads SN, and he could prove it by passing the basketball around his waist one time on his next in-game free throw.) 8)

There's nothing (ultimately) that's going to help them on SN (or a sports magazine, or a newspaper). The recruiting forum might be OK as entertainment - but most of what's on SN is for "fan and disgruntled fan."

[shockball]

Outside of regular practice Sylvia S.. fed the ball to Xavier McDaniel so he could take an extra 300 shots a day. X was not a good shooter when he got here but he led the nation in scoring his senior year. He was the only unanimous selection to the NBA all rookie team.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a player doing this. ;-) It is extreme. It doesn't seem like we have a lot of players partaking. In addition to the shot repetitions it does develop a certain attitude.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Outside of regular practice Sylvia S.. fed the ball to Xavier McDaniel so he could take an extra 300 shots a day. X was not a good shooter when he got here but he led the nation in scoring his senior year. He was the only unanimous selection to the NBA all rookie team.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a player doing this. ;-) It is extreme. It doesn't seem like we have a lot of players partaking. In addition to the shot repetitions it does develop a certain attitude.

I still remember X's first shot as a Shocker. It was an air ball from the corner. The NW corner to be exact.

[Aargh]

There are D1 teams that excel on both offense and defense. After the season, they're generally called F4 teams. WSU had a pretty balanced team that made a S16. SIU had a D-oriented team that couldn't score much that made 2 S16's in recent years.

The first 2 choices for a 3 last year seemed to be Wilson and Ogirri. They're gone. Braeuer and Cooz are facing the pressure of being the first choice for a 3 this year. They haven't historically been consistent 40%+ 3-shooters.

Going back to when Mekel was playing Euro leagues before he arrived at WSU, Mekel was not a 3-shooter. Mekel's % from 3 wasn't good (in the 20's). Mekel had great stats from 2. His between-the-legs and behind-the-back dribbling got him freed up against Euro guards and he scored a ton of mid-range points. He can't beat D1 defenders with those same moves and D1 defenses switch to cover if he beats the first player.

Even though Ogirri had a lackluster Jr season, losing him left WSU without a consistent threat from 3. Preadom tried a summer of working on his shot. That never materialized in games. Cooz tried a summer of attempting to convert to a SG. That didn't work.

It's not lack of effort or desire. It's just the fact that WSU doesn't have players who shoot consistently. It's not just limited to 3's. It's layups too. We're going to have to live with that this season.

[Maggie]

Aargh,

Overall I agree with you which is why I think the team will continue to be inconsistent this year. However, I had hoped that Griskenas and to a lesser extent Ellis would help fill the void left by Wilson and SO. That has not happened so far. I still think both will eventually come around and start knocking down jumpers. When that happens it should take some pressure off PJ and MB.

[RowShock87]

IMHO: last year's team got out rebounded. If you have less looks than your opponent you HAVE to have a high "made %". One and done will not get it done.

This year the same sort of challenge lingers. Although the team is consistently out-rebounding, the margin isn't high enough...at a 28% shooting you have to up the rebounds by 10 more to make up the percentage. The LSU and UMKC game stats support that. Rebounding is part of the offense. Once a team gets that in its head, step back and watch the carnage. Result...outrebound Wichita State or stay within 5 boards and you'll win the game. I know that's myopic...

[DUShock]

We could certainly use some these skills, even with last night's performance I am certain these could out shoot the Shocks at times.

http://www.break.com/index/the-ultimate-game-of-horse.html

Go Shocks!!!!

[forevershockerfan]

Last night we had our fair share of lay-ups and made 21 free-throws. We were penetrating, whipping the ball around quicker, and not force-feeding an oodle of 3's. Before, our opponets taunted us to shoot alot of 3's and we were so willing to settle for that.. Last night, we seemed to have a healthy balance in our offense the 2nd half and it was probably the best half we played all year. The result was 80 points. One last thought is we out-rebounded the Braves 38-22 which kept us in the game with 17 turnovers the 1st half and gave us our share of solid runs in the 2nd half. Even though Bradley has been struggling as of late, this was a very impressive road win against a team that was picked preseason from 1-4 in the Valley in many publications.

[Snapshot9]

Bradley was fast down the court for Offense, especially the 1st half. But, at the end, it was Crouch, almost single-handedly, that kept them in the game.