Vs. Illinois State game thread

[im4wsu]

Please tell mne Murry dribbling around the top of the key for 20- seconds and then shooting a 3 wasn't in the game plan.

Of all the situations, this was the absolute dumbest. Make Ill St play defense and attempt to get inside. If you can't, you've still used clock and can get a wild-*** 3-pt attempt. But a two-banger would have been huge at this point. I understand that we wanted to use clock ans feel Ill St was playing into our had by not fouling, BUT still make them work a little bit.

[SHOXAAC]

...does it ever get to the point that we over-analyze, become over critical, and examine everything under such a powerful microscope that we fail to enjoy what we have?

No (smiley face)!

[Ta Town Shocker]

I agree, he would tell you he should have made those shots.. and we all wish he would have. But your standard for Stutz is that he HAS to play 'great' every game.. because as you say "he has to play better" than he did tonight when he had 12/10. He needs what.. a 20/15 game nightly? If this is your standard, you are in for a long rest of the season.

And contrast that with Hall who is the player that kept us in "sync".. he had 3 pts and 2 boards on 0/1 shooting in 24 minutes. I think Hall had his worst game of the season to be honest. He wasn't much of a factor at all.

To me.. this is just more Stutz hate for no reason. You're focusing on what he didn't do, instead of what he did do.. and what he did do is bring a double double on a night when our starting power forward brought nothing offensively, and our guards disappeared for 20 minutes.

I think Paul Suellentrop put it best... "My theory about Stutz is that his talents won’t really be appreciated until next season. When he’s gone, coaches, fans and the media will understand how nice it is to have a player with that size and skill. When he’s here, we tend to focus on what he’s not. Next season, we find out what it’s like without a 7-foot scoring option."

I was actually the one that said he "has to play better." Let me say first off that I am not a Stutz hater. I'm usually the one sticking up for him but like you said I must have been watching a different game. Like the rest of the team I didn't think he played well defensively in the second half. Maybe it's because I think so highly of him that I expect more.

[Capitol Shock II]

I think Stutz had a good game last night but I too think that his defense in the lane is suspect and that other teams seem to be trying to exploit it. It's much tougher for them to do with the beast in the game and I personally think that Ehimeh plays better defense by a wide margin than Garrett does.

[Dan]

What was WSU's record last year at this time?

We were 13-3 with losses to uconn, @ sdsu and @ mo state. If we have aspirations of the big dance this year, we need to get our problems worked out sooner than later.

[SHOXAAC]

When TM was a freshman, WSU was coming off an 11 win season the year before. The talent pool was low at the time. Hannah was in his first year and wasn't the player he would become as a senior. AJ Hawkins wasn't as advertised. Graham was developing. Reggie Chamberlain was not ready for prime time, and DK was well DK.

In Toure's sophomore year Clevin became the glue in their 25 win season. Other players became relevant. JT was a solid scorer, as was Graham and Garrett. Toure didn't separate himself as a scorer because the talent pool was getting better.

Last year was similar to Toure's sophomore year, as the Shockers won 29 games and won the NIT. There was so much balance on that team with JT, Kyles, Garrett, Rags, Gabe, Graham and Smith were all capable of being the big scorer on any given night.

Toure has improved since his freshman year...but not by leaps and bounds. Each year the talent around him has gotten better. Toure's talent hasn't risen above it. No big deal, unless the expectations of Toure are higher than what he is capable of. I was hoping Toure would have the career Dougie is apparently having. It just isn't in the cards. It's just not in him. I'm ok with that. I will just cheer during his better moments and scratch my head at his ill-advised 3's, other bad shots and turnovers.

[another shocker]

That late TO from Murry was so typical of him though. I don't know why coach gives him the green light to the extent that he does.

[WuDrWu]

Yeah, I don't know...maybe it's because he's one of the best 25 overall players to ever be in the program? Just guessing.

[xazshox]

Murry

I've all of WSU's games this year including the ones in Puerto Rico. Toure Murry has been the most consistent player on the team at crunch time in almost every game. Where have you guys been. Sure, he makes mistakes, but he also makes a lot of big plays and nothing was more obvious than in the game against Illinois State in the last several minutes.

[newshock1234]

That late TO from Murry was so typical of him though. I don't know why coach gives him the green light to the extent that he does.

you do know that we easily lose that game without toure murry late in the game. Yea he made 1 mistake late, but he also made 3 great plays.

[WstateU]

Yeah, I don't know...maybe it's because he's one of the best 25 overall players to ever be in the program? Just guessing.

Doc, the recent ‘dumbing down’ of this board is troubling at best.

[pinstripers]

That's pretty strong. He was the one that carried us the last 5 minutes, no question. Had he not been there, perhaps somebody else would have stepped up, maybe, maybe not. He's a good player, not a great player. Somewhat of an enigma, I suppose. You could probably make the case that he makes more mistakes than most. If you want to balance that with the thought that he makes more great plays than most, then that is your right. I think the guarded 24-footer he took in the final minutes was a mistake, and I get to have my opinions as well. Coach gets paid a lot of money to decide who gets the ball in his hands in the waning minutes. That either speaks to his confidence in Toure, or his lack of confidence in others.

[SubGod22]

I have no idea what he was thinking with that three ball. I thought that was going to cost us and it nearly did. But he did hit some big shots as well. But I have to admit, he doesn't make me feel confident when he's taking shots late. Especially outside of 15 feet.

[ShockTalk]

you do know that we easily lose that game without toure murry late in the game. Yea he made 1 mistake late, but he also made 3 great plays.

As Doc said. I'm very glad TM bailed us out late. However, it should have never needed to happen and the team, as well as TM with four years of experience, were all guilty. Until that 3:30 mark in the 2nd, TM was a very pedistrian 2-6 FG, 6 points, 2 TOs, 2 fouls, with 3 rebounds and 2 asissts.

[BOBB]

Yeah, I don't know...maybe it's because he's one of the best 25 overall players to ever be in the program? Just guessing.

I agree, but TM does seem to get discombobulated sometimes in pressure situations.