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  • State of the Shocker Nation :(

    Hey guys, I've been a little busy lately but wanted to check in after seeing an article regarding The Exodus from Egypt.

    My following words are gonna work like salt in the wounds of some of ya's so avert your eyes if you are feeling sensitive today...

    I've known the program was in trouble for a while (check the "we've lost our edge" thread). I posited that it could have been due to assistant coaching turnovers, the Peter Principle, or just the lack of hunger in the old dog that was quietly growing very rich. It's probably one or all three.

    Gregg Marshall is a character. Coaches of his type (see: Bobby Knight) do very well when they have a culture of winning and lots of administrative support. When the foundation starts to crack though, things collapse in spectacular fashion. Hopefully the cracks we see now can be patched.

    Players aren't going to run through walls if they don't believe there's a prize on the other side. The magic seems gone and players/parents are starting to think it may never return. Nobody has the patience to see things develop in this day and age. Everybody wants instant gratification. The players are spoiled rotten and the parents can be even worse. HCGM's style is not that dissimilar to Gene Stephenson's - "we will forge them in fire". Both styles require 110% buy-ins.

    Here's CB's list of solutions:

    1) Gregg retires with honors and we bring in new energy, passion, and ideas with Chris Jans.
    2) Gregg starts recruiting "MVC level" (under-recruited) players again and gives them their shot in the AAC. In this sense he will have total authority over their lives and their parents.
    3) Continue along the exact same path because now that I've floated the idea of Gregg retiring, he will go to the Final Four next year.

    Stay safe folks and don't congregate unless absolutely necessary.


    T


    ...

  • #2
    Gregg loves winning too much...I do agree he's been recruiting higher talented players... With whom come with ego and want to play without having to prove it. I think he needs to bring in a balance...a few divas...like one or two can be tolerated... But not in the same class or even back to back classes. We need blue collar...junk yard dog types.

    Comment


    • #3
      I forgot to add one more thing:

      Recent history seems to indicate that Shocker basketball success is inversely related to Shocker baseball success. With that said... I'd prepare yourselves for some trips back to Omaha in the near future.


      T


      ...

      Comment


      • #4
        Jans is in a good place at New Mexico State. I think he would be wary of coming to the AAC since it has basically blown up his mentor's basketball program in three years time.

        Comment


        • #5
          23-8 and at large worthy is blown up.......got it.

          #SDS

          Comment


          • #6
            When three freshman and three sophomore scholarship players counted on for the future transfer it is a blow up.

            Comment


            • #7
              I’m still in a “wait and see” mode. 3G has proven he’s capable of building a good roster and fielding competitive teams in short order. Let’s see if he still has it in him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dan View Post
                I’m still in a “wait and see” mode. 3G has proven he’s capable of building a good roster and fielding competitive teams in short order. Let’s see if he still has it in him.
                Lawn flourish after all the crabgrass has been removed...
                "You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by WstateU View Post

                  Lawn flourish after all the crabgrass has been removed...
                  BINGO!!! Not saying all of the deflections were head cases, but some definitely were.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by WstateU View Post

                    Lawn flourish after all the crabgrass has been removed...
                    Sheeeiit. When I was a wee shock we had the great DOFO droughts of every year. All our lawn was made of was crab grass. A little in a nice lawn makes it look terrible. A whole lawn of crab grass is tough sh!t. Water it with roundup and Killzall and it flourishes.
                    When you believe in something, the only person that's gotta believe it is you. Everything else is for the birds.- LeVelle Moton
                    Wichita is going to the rich side of town with a pack of matches and a five gallon tank of gasoline and try to burn everything to the ground

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
                      Hey guys, I've been a little busy lately but wanted to check in after seeing an article regarding The Exodus from Egypt.

                      My following words are gonna work like salt in the wounds of some of ya's so avert your eyes if you are feeling sensitive today...

                      I've known the program was in trouble for a while (check the "we've lost our edge" thread). I posited that it could have been due to assistant coaching turnovers, the Peter Principle, or just the lack of hunger in the old dog that was quietly growing very rich. It's probably one or all three.

                      Gregg Marshall is a character. Coaches of his type (see: Bobby Knight) do very well when they have a culture of winning and lots of administrative support. When the foundation starts to crack though, things collapse in spectacular fashion. Hopefully the cracks we see now can be patched.

                      Players aren't going to run through walls if they don't believe there's a prize on the other side. The magic seems gone and players/parents are starting to think it may never return. Nobody has the patience to see things develop in this day and age. Everybody wants instant gratification. The players are spoiled rotten and the parents can be even worse. HCGM's style is not that dissimilar to Gene Stephenson's - "we will forge them in fire". Both styles require 110% buy-ins.

                      Here's CB's list of solutions:

                      1) Gregg retires with honors and we bring in new energy, passion, and ideas with Chris Jans.
                      2) Gregg starts recruiting "MVC level" (under-recruited) players again and gives them their shot in the AAC. In this sense he will have total authority over their lives and their parents.
                      3) Continue along the exact same path because now that I've floated the idea of Gregg retiring, he will go to the Final Four next year.

                      Stay safe folks and don't congregate unless absolutely necessary.


                      T


                      ...
                      I love EVERY bit of this!!! Well thought out!( but especially bringing Jans in

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Shocker Nation is incredibly divided. Almost as bad as political divides.

                        There is one faction that supports players and refuses to accept even a hint that players were part of the problem. Another faction supports Marshall and insists that some players with problems affected other players.

                        It's not going to be a boring off season. Perhaps irritating, but not boring.
                        The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
                        We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          None of this matters. I’m of the opinion there will be no college basketball in 2020-21

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shock-it-to-me View Post
                            None of this matters. I’m of the opinion there will be no college basketball in 2020-21
                            I’m taking this virus as seriously as anyone I know, but I believe we will be well on the backside of this come fall...or God help us.
                            Wichita State, home of the All-Americans.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aargh View Post
                              Shocker Nation is incredibly divided. Almost as bad as political divides.

                              There is one faction that supports players and refuses to accept even a hint that players were part of the problem. Another faction supports Marshall and insists that some players with problems affected other players.

                              It's not going to be a boring offseason. Perhaps irritating, but not boring.
                              Those are just the extremes. Unfortunately, people play to those extremes (Just like in politics) and the middle gets lost. Which is where I'm having fun because I get to make fun of those people. Especially the ones who would be quick to tell those same players to 'Stick to Sports" and the ever-popular "What happened to accountability" which seems to fly out the window with the quickness.

                              The reality of the situation is a combination of both. Wichita State leveled up their recruiting by way of "Stars" and National Cache. I'm not sure how much he's been involved (or not involved) in recruiting but he's done an excellent job of bringing in talent but so far has shown he cant manage them.
                              Players choose schools for a number of reasons and they should certainly know that WSU got to where they are for reasons. Marshall has always been known for being "Hot", they watch the games on TV and in person. If they knew he was a hardass they have to be prepared for that.

                              I'm surprised it's taken this long to actually hit the fan considering last year (even in the NIT run) you could see something clearly was off. There was a clear divide between the old/new guard.

                              Wichita States basketball program is a victim of its own success and the stars next to a players name or a new head coach isnt exactly going to solve that. At least IMO

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