The Official Shocks vs. Temple Game Thread - Puerto Rican Style

[shockerfan]

Oh and Garrett averaging 9.3 rebounds per game so far...who woulda thought?! And anyone that heard Garrett on the post game show can see what type of leader he is and will continue to be. The guy took all of the blame (which he really didn't have to) for the loss. Stutz is the type of guy we need this year. Hope he can keep it up consistently.

[WSUwatcher]

Very annoying outcome. Now that I'm a highly paid championship basketball consultant whose first client is WSU, here's my priceless advice for the Shocks: make your damn free throws. Smith and Kyles are a combined 50% so far this season and worse against Temple; Hall is 25% (2-8! -- is the basket further away in college or something?); the team is shooting 56% as a whole. That won't do, and history suggests they're better than that. So get on with it.

If the Shocks just hit 2/3 of their free throws in regulation, which still isn't very good for a college team, they win without the need for OT and have one of those "happy flights" home the Cardinals talked about so much on the way to their unlikely World Series win. As it is, the long flight home won't be nearly as pleasant and we're back into the same old missed opportunity syndrome we saw last year.

Enough NIT already, guys -- you've mastered that. Time to move on to the next level, but it won't happen until you stop giving away winnable games against quality opponents by laying bricks at the foul line.

[wufan]

Stutz and Murry appear to be the only seniors on a mission. Smith plays very hard. Kyles and Ragland want to win, but aren't playing with controlled intensity, more like frustrated desperation. If TM and GS continue to execute they will have success. Stutz doesn't do well with contact, but even so, 9 & 9 in 24 minutes is a good center. Murry is a great all-around player, but he hasn't figured out how to win games for us.

Hall is adjusting. Cotton needs to learn the offense and help d. DWill needs to figure it out.

[Maggie]

This game was very frustrating to watch - a few thoughts:

1. I have been hard on Murry but the kid had a great NIT and, overall, played very well last week. Yes he took a bad shot late in the game; however, without Murry (who is playing hurt) WSU wouldn't have been in this game. He is starting to remind me of John Starks - he is a ying-yang theater mask type of player - he does some great things but can also make you want to pull your hair out. That said, I am glad he is on this team - you have to accept the good and bad with players - and what he brings to the court, the whole package, is overwhelming positive;

2. Count me in as one who wanted to see what Cotton could do,in the first half - I am glad he received big mins in the second half. The kid plays excellent D, seems to be able to knock down open shots, takes care of the basketball, and can finish at the rim (the latter appears to be rare on this team). I don't think he is the typical fr. - is he going to make some mistakes? Yes. Will he make those mistakes twice? I doubt it.

3. CGM teams are going to shoot a lot of 3s - that is just a fact. It is when you take them that matters and I am at a loss as to why the older players have not figured this out. The backcourt was supposed to be the backbone of this team - so far, despite a few bright spots, it has come up short.

4. If GS is not getting the ball (and he gets good position most of the time) I don't blame the coach - I blame the PG. Rags is to blame. He has to lead the team on the court. GS and or Hall should get a touch almost every offensive possession. That is not happening.

5. This loss hurt. When people freak out I don't blame them. This team doesn't have a huge margin of error - that is also just a fact. Now is this the end of the world? No. But is certainly makes things harder. Why does this team have to do things the hard way?

[ShockRef]

A good night of sleep and still some thoughts emerging.

1) DK finally figured out that a pump fake and drive is a valuable option, especially when every opponent anticipates you to be a catch & shoot.

However, when driving to the basket and drawing fouls, it would probably help to shoot better than 37% from the FT line.

His inability to convert from the line at critical times really hurt.

2) GS is such a class act.

He took more head & body shots than Jerry Quarry vs Ali and just kept working hard. After the game he looked like he had been through a war, when in fact, he had.

He then takes the blame for the loss in the post game interview?

We need about 10 more guys like him.

3) DWill has a confidence issue and unless he gets to the confidence store and blows out his credit card, things aren't going to get better anytime soon.

His shot looks like he hopes it goes in vs knowing it's nothing but net. That isn't going to cut it in D-1 ball (or any level for that matter).

4) I worked a D-II game Saturday night and neither team let the other one beat them down the floor off the jump ball.

That was an embarrassing way to start the OT, especially when you know the opponent is probably going to out jump your guy.

5) A lot has been said about Cotton. Fact is, he just looks like a player. For some reason, he reminds one of SIU's Darren Brooks and that isn't a bad thing at all.

6) Ragland will be fine. Ok, didn't have the best game, but he still runs the show and will the whole year.

That is all.

[wufan]

I didn't see mention of the last play before half. Kyles, IIR, got an offense board for the put back at the buzzer, but the guy boxing out Stutz (wing or guard) couldn't handle him so he turned into GS and laid his shoulder into Garretts belly. He then proceeded to push him like a football blocking sled until he had tackled Stutz at the charity stripe. That should have been a flagrant foul, but there was no whistle.

[RoyalShock]

Seriously, this forum is making the Shox look horrendously bad. If I read the forum, I would not choose the Shox for the CBE or CBI, or whatever the postseason tourny it is that .500 teams strive for.
Make a 3, make a ft, the ref, whatever. We blew a game we couldve won. It was an OT game w/ a crappy call in OT. It wasn't the SIU or Misery St game at home.
I expect a lot better from the team & much much better from so called "fans".

Have you ever gone to a message board for a winning, power-conference program after a game they needed to win, but lost? This was a game WSU needed to win to establish itself as a nationally competitive program this year. Forget last year or any year prior. Four games in and our margin for error to get an at-large bid got microscopically thin.

Show me a message board that is absent of criticism and negativity after a loss and I'll show you a program that doesn't expect to win.

[ShockRef]

I didn't see mention of the last play before half. Kyles, IIR, got an offense board for the put back at the buzzer, but the guy boxing out Stutz (wing or guard) couldn't handle him so he turned into GS and laid his shoulder into Garretts belly. He then proceeded to push him like a football blocking sled until he had tackled Stutz at the charity stripe. That should have been a flagrant foul, but there was no whistle.

Wuf,
Jim Burr has been a top official for many years. He is the cream of the crop when it comes to managing a game.

That said, he did not have his best game yesterday.

You are right about missing the foul on Stutz at the buzzer and of course he really missed one on Kyles after his steal and drive to the basket.

Later, he called a cheap one for Kyles after he stole an errant pass and was heading for a lay up.

As was the case yesterday, Kyles then missed both FT's.

[ShockRef]

Royal,
Thank you.

This is a place to vent (within reason), especially after a game like yesterday.

There was a lot on the line, the prize was within grasp and they let it slip away.

Even as a bad as they played, coming out of there with a win would not only have felt good, but certainly p***ed the Bilas 'eye test' back in Bristol.

You can be ***ured as the season progresses, Temple will be pointing to it as a 'quality win' come Selection Sunday.

[RoyalShock]

I had to watch the game DVR-delayed. After sitting through it last night and sleeping on it here are my impressions:


- Clearly the team chemistry isn't there yet. Only the players/coaches can really know what's wrong. Hopefully they get it figured out soon.


- Opponent's guards drive and dish, score or get fouled. Ours don't. Is that a coaching, player decisions or player ability? If not for Toure's mid-range game I'm not sure our guards would ever do anything inside the 3-point line.


- FT shooting. 'Nuff said.


- Stutz did miss some point-blank, albeit contested, shots. He needs to find a way to convert those, but it's encouraging that he's getting them. Guards need to get him the ball more. I'm impressed that he can take a beating like that and still take responsibility for the loss. Newsflash . . . even with some foul troubles he's getting 24 minutes per game and close to averaging a double-double (9 points, 9.3 boards). He's never averaged more than 4.4 rebounds per game.


- Hall didn't have a great game but you never have to question his effort when on the floor. I'm not sold on his jump hook yet.


- Murry's shot at the end of regulation was a poor decision. And he had a couple of bonehead turnovers. But it's difficult to be too down on him considering that he is the only reason we haven't been blown out in the last two games.


- Cotton looks like he's going to be a very solid back-up this year. That Marshall uses him as a defensive replacement speaks volumes.


- Ragland had a poor outing, and is still prone to 1-2 stupid fouls per game. I think he's going to come around soon, but I'm not sure he has what it takes to be effective against NCAA tournament caliber competition.


- Williams must be practicing very well. Hope it translates to games before long.


- Smith and Kyles, well, are primarily shooters. Shooters have games where they struggle. But even when struggling those two are usually are getting some rebounds or ***ists to help out. When those guys are clicking we're going to blow some teams out of the gym.


In my mind this tournament was a 3-way litmus test, as much as one can be this early in a 30-game schedule. I saw three possible results: 1. WSU establishes itself as NCAA tournament-caliber, top-8 seed, with a tip-off championship, 2. Establish itself as a bubble team, or 3. Show they have a way to go.


The outcome in my mind is #2. The Shocks competed with a top-15 team and went toe-to-toe with a perennial tourney team picked to win a conference that has been better than the MVC. The problem will be how the selection committee views those games. Plus, there is so much basketball to be played. Will Alabama and Temple show to be as good throughout the year? Can WSU sweep the rest of the non-con and avoid any bad losses in conference?


If so, I still think we will have a solid at-large resume. That said, this weekend was a disappointment and the negativity is understandable since we expected more after the way last year finished, key losses notwithstanding.

[newshock1234]

Free throw shooting cost us this game plain and simple

[_kai_]

We tend to look bad early in the season. Maybe we need to stop playing in these tournaments because it's obviously not helping our cause anymore. It's not like our 2 losses were BAD losses, but they're still losses all the same. If we can't capitalize on these tournaments, I don't see the point.

[SPEShockAlum]

Free throw shooting cost us this game plain and simple

Yep. Absolutely. No question.

We tend to look bad early in the season. Maybe we need to stop playing in these tournaments because it's obviously not helping our cause anymore. It's not like our 2 losses were BAD losses, but they're still losses all the same. If we can't capitalize on these tournaments, I don't see the point.

I had no idea that my wife was making her opinions known on this board! Ha! @_kai_: do you have something to confess??

The losses are frustrating, especially knowing what a win against the competition can do for us (and the conference) come March; however, not playing guarantees that we don't get those opportunities outside of the early-season tournaments. What is the saying? "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take". Eventually a few of them have to go in.... don't they?

[_kai_]

Yep. Absolutely. No question.



I had no idea that my wife was making her opinions known on this board! Ha! @_kai_ do you have something to confess??

The losses are frustrating, especially knowing what a win against the competition can do for us (and the conference) come March; however, not playing guarantees that we don't get those opportunities outside of the early-season tournaments. What is the saying? "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take". Eventually a few of them have to go in.... don't they?

Do we have another opportunity to play a #15th ranked team on our schedule aside from Bama? No. Do we have another chance to beat a team comparable to Temple? You bet. UNLV, Utah State, UAB all should be similar to Temple. So aside from Bama, we didn't play anyone we couldn't have played later in the season.

I'm not saying we shouldn't play good teams, I'm saying we wait to play them when we've worked out some of the kinks. You can't tell me that we haven't had horrible showings in all of our early season tournaments.

[ShockerGorilla]

We tend to look bad early in the season. Maybe we need to stop playing in these tournaments because it's obviously not helping our cause anymore. It's not like our 2 losses were BAD losses, but they're still losses all the same. If we can't capitalize on these tournaments, I don't see the point.

So, using your logic, we shouldn't play in the Valley tournament either.