newest division one schools

[abdullah_sharif]

saw this morning that the following schools are working toward division one membership (with the year of being fully d-1)


california baptist (2022-23)
univ of north alabama (2022-23)
merrimack college (2023-24)

bellarmine college (2024-25)
dixie state univ (2024-25)
cal - san diego (2024-25)


all are going to third tier conferences as expected.. the thought that runs thru my mind is that in this day and age, what the hell are they thinking? Other than bloating budget deficits and getting their asses kicked should they get the auto bid in their conferences, what is the objective? does anyone know more about this?

my theory is that the bcs conference schools and maybe one or two more (aac / b-east) may make a move toward a higher level and what is division one today could be 1-aa tomorrow? thoughts?

[1972Shocker]

Certainly seems to be moving the wrong direction especially as it concerns men's basletball.. I agree that is possible that the P-5 conferences might try to move toward separating into higher level but if they do that I would not be surprised if they may decide to totally break away fron the NCAA when they do that.

[ABC]

Lots of experts think that as many as 50% of American colleges and universities will be bankrupt in 10-15 years. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/30/hbs-...-15-years.html

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Living in SD I have first hand knowledge of UCSD. They will have no issues moving to D-1. They have an excellent football, volleyball, and soccer programs. They are considered the top public university in the country and have nearly 36,000 students, a top notch research and medical program. The school has a HUGE backing financially and an amazing campus located in the La Jolla area of SD right down the street from Torrey Pines Golf Course if anyone is familiar with the area.

I cannot speak for the others, but I will say this is a difficult transition for any school to try and make.

[Shox The Revenant]

That is a huge school. The most surprising stat I saw was that 46% of their undergraduate student body is Asian. That's gotta be a record.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Top 10 engineering school, Top 15 medical school. Plus San Diego in general has a large Asian population.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

At this point I don't understand the advantage of transitioning up to Division 1. Even if the motivation is purely for prestige, from my perspective there's not enough of an increase in prestige from transitioning from a good Division 2 school to an alsoran in something like the MEAC to justify the costs of Division 1 membership.

Every school that moves up makes a Division 1A/AA kind of split in basketball more likely. Thirty some conferences and 350+ teams is not sustainable.

[NCAABound]

At this point I don't understand the advantage of transitioning up to Division 1. Even if the motivation is purely for prestige, from my perspective there's not enough of an increase in prestige from transitioning from a good Division 2 school to an alsoran in something like the MEAC to justify the costs of Division 1 membership.

Every school that moves up makes a Division 1A/AA kind of split in basketball more likely. Thirty some conferences and 350+ teams is not sustainable.

Can I ask how it's not sustainable for the NCAA or the institution?

To the big schools - all of these little flies have absolutely zero impact on them. And to these new schools, what's the disadvantage beyond competing for championships at a lower level (if they even were at that level)? In fact, they'll probably earn more money to support all of their programs. Look at a school like Texas Southern who gets a huge chunk of money for playing all of these "buy games". If you were D2 - you wouldn't get those because those games don't count. Then you actually have a chance of making some sort of splash by winning a conference tourney against a bunch of other nobodys and earning a bid to the most exciting tournament in the country.

[WstateU]

Most of them are cra-cra crazy...

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Can I ask how it's not sustainable for the NCAA or the institution?

To the big schools - all of these little flies have absolutely zero impact on them. And to these new schools, what's the disadvantage beyond competing for championships at a lower level (if they even were at that level)? In fact, they'll probably earn more money to support all of their programs. Look at a school like Texas Southern who gets a huge chunk of money for playing all of these "buy games". If you were D2 - you wouldn't get those because those games don't count. Then you actually have a chance of making some sort of splash by winning a conference tourney against a bunch of other nobodys and earning a bid to the most exciting tournament in the country.

Sure. It's not sustainable for the NCAA to have literally 10-15 completely irrelevant conferences that send one team to the NCAA tournament that in all likelihood will not win one single game. Occasionally, one will win a game--which is exciting and fun, absolutely. We will all remember that time a 16 seed beat a 1 seed. Occasionally, a 15 seed beats a 2. But what about the other 95% of the time? Assuming schools continue to be added to Division 1, will we see a day when we'll be watching a 22 seed play a one seed? I'd argue the tournament is too big as it is, but not because there are too many at-larges. There's simply too many auto-bids. At the risk of sounding elitist, which God knows I'm not, I don't understand how or why most schools in conferences such as MEAC or the SWAC are Division 1.

Which leads me to why I question how Division 1 status is sustainable for the schools. Texas Southern, as you mentioned, is a prime example. They had 2 (TWO!!) home games on their nonconference schedule last year. The played 11 on the road--assuming all for a paycheck. Is that fair to the student athletes? That is a monumental amount of travel that can be a huge distraction from academics. Is that fair to the fans? They got to see their team play twice in two months. All of this just so they can afford to field a team in Division 1. I have to question whether it's worth it. Texas Southern has been to the NCAA tournament 7 times and never won a game. In 2017, they lost to North Carolina 103-64. When schools have to sell their soul for a once in a lifetime chance to win a game in the tournament, and in the meantime get lambasted trying to do it, it leads one to think something is messed up with the system.

[Cdizzle]

I wager Texas So. players and fans had it better than most others in similar situations. They played a crazy schedule that I'm sure was fun for players and fans alike. They were probably able to watch more of their teams games by virtue of P5 schools being on ESPN than if they had played H/H with other like schools.

Doesn't mean I disagree. I'm not really sure the answer. I'd vote bigger tournament.

[WstateU]

You make good points, but MEAC and SWAC average home attendance is abysmal... they probably have more people watch them play P7 schools on ESPN networks, than home attendance. They just as well go on the road for a pay check and take it in the shorts on the scoreboard.

MEAC = 1734 per game average... yikes!

SWAC = 1351 per game average... yikes x 2!

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2020/Attendance.pdf

P.S. Interesting attendance figures for P7; Memphis (Penny) probably contributed significantly to the 1170 AAC increase, but the SEC, Big East, Big 12 and Pac 12 decreased.

[Shockm]

Yes. Teams who cannot average 3000 to home games aren’t serious Div. 1 programs.

[ShockTalk]

I still don't know why they don't go to a D1-A and a D1-AA similar to football, but with a few tweaks.

1) A division team can still play AA division teams "X" number of games in OOC play.

2) Allow for flexibility for a D1-AA conference to move up to D1-A with continued good performance and likewise, a conference can be dropped to D1-AA with continued poor performance.

3) Split the conferences something like 12 A and 20 AA.

4) All D1-A conferences get at least an auto bid. Also a requirement for a certain number of true road OOC games and a minimum conference performance. I mean that's 2 bites at the conference apple. One, minimum record in league play and/or two, finishing in the top 4 of your conference tournament. You don't do either, your out.

5) D1-AA can have a 32 team tournament the Thursday-Sunday before with the final 8 receiving bids to the D-1A tournament. Keep the same current tournament format, but 20 auto-bids turn into 8. No more than 4 of the 8 1-AA teams can play in the current "play-in" round with none playing each other. The other 4 teams are seeded.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I wish you worked for the NCAA. Seriously. That would be a great solution.

[Kung Wu]

relegation, relegation, relegation

[pogo]

A more than likely scenario is the power 5 conferences bring in a few more football schools and form their own Athletic Association ie the Power Athletic Association with their own legislative body and rules. They will be responsible only to themselves and their rules. They can then offer payments to athletes at the level they mandate and with few restrictions on scholarships. They will have their own championships in all sports and negoiate their own tv deals. The ncaa will become a group of colleges and universities on the short end with little leverage for tv money or exposure. The power 5 at some point will decide they don’t like sharing money with the ncaa and the small fish while enduring the rules they feel restrict them.

[Shockm]

A more than likely scenario is the power 5 conferences bring in a few more football schools and form their own Athletic Association ie the Power Athletic Association with their own legislative body and rules. They will be responsible only to themselves and their rules. They can then offer payments to athletes at the level they mandate and with few restrictions on scholarships. They will have their own championships in all sports and negoiate their own tv deals. The ncaa will become a group of colleges and universities on the short end with little leverage for tv money or exposure. The power 5 at some point will decide they don’t like sharing money with the ncaa and the small fish while enduring the rules they feel restrict them.

I don't have any comments regarding your basic scenario. However, I don't believe that those schools want to pay their players on any wide scale. They may support payments to players for money made off of their name (jerseys, advertisements, etc.). But payments to all athletes would be at a high cost to their schools too and money they don't want to pay. With schools supporting up to 20+ sports (both men and women), the payments would be in the millions in addition to their books, tuition, and room/board which also is in the millions.

[ShockTalk]

A more than likely scenario is the power 5 conferences bring in a few more football schools and form their own Athletic Association ie the Power Athletic Association with their own legislative body and rules. They will be responsible only to themselves and their rules. They can then offer payments to athletes at the level they mandate and with few restrictions on scholarships. They will have their own championships in all sports and negoiate their own tv deals. The ncaa will become a group of colleges and universities on the short end with little leverage for tv money or exposure. The power 5 at some point will decide they don’t like sharing money with the ncaa and the small fish while enduring the rules they feel restrict them.

Such a movement as what this article is recommending would surely get the big schools' attention (not that it's going to happen).

It's Time for Black Athletes to Leave White Colleges

[Shocker_Power]

I don't have any comments regarding your basic scenario. However, I don't believe that those schools want to pay their players on any wide scale. They may support payments to players for money made off of their name (jerseys, advertisements, etc.). But payments to all athletes would be at a high cost to their schools too and money they don't want to pay. With schools supporting up to 20+ sports (both men and women), the payments would be in the millions in addition to their books, tuition, and room/board which also is in the millions.

Not to mention, that down the road somewhere there would be a labor union formed by the athletes.