Predictions not showing much respect this season...

[Capitol Shock II]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/ncaa-tournament/predictions/preseason

I am surprised and disappointed that we are being left out of so many bracket predictions. Obviously I hope that these guys (Palm, ******* and Parrish) are wrong and I also hope that these articles / predictions are lighting an additional fire under our players and coaches. While I would be happy to win the NIT again sometime, I really don't want the opportunity to come at the expense of this season. I think our seniors and coaches have worked way to hard in four years to miss the NCAA.

It's going to be tough to win big games early but it's going to be really important that we do in my opinion.

[ShoxFan963]

On paper, it almost looks to be a rebuilding year for us. They (the analysts) are seeing the loss of the majority of last year's backcourt with the departures of JT, AE, GB, and GH. Granted we still have Garrett, Ehimen, and Ben returning, but they didn't average big minutes last year. When you look at it from an outside point of view, it may not look like we are contenders for a NCAA tourney bid.

I see some great talent coming in this year to replace the seniors of last year, hopefully they fill the void quickly. I believe we have a great team this year and we will be hunting in March next year!
:poster_shocks::poster_shocks:

[60Shock]

On paper, it almost looks to be a rebuilding year for us. They (the analysts) are seeing the loss of the majority of last year's backcourt with the departures of JT, AE, GB, and GH. Granted we still have Garrett, Ehimen, and Ben returning, but they didn't average big minutes last year. When you look at it from an outside point of view, it may not look like we are contenders for a NCAA tourney bid.

I see some great talent coming in this year to replace the seniors of last year, hopefully they fill the void quickly. I believe we have a great team this year and we will hunting in March next year!
:poster_shocks::poster_shocks:

For the most part, preseason ratings are rather meaningless. Frequently what looks good on paper often does not materialize. I'd much rather be under rated than over rated. And to be frank, there is one major variable with our team and that question mark is the front line. If GS, Hall, and EO come through and play like they are being hyped-up to be, then we will be fine. If not, we are going to have to rely heavily on our guards and SFs to carry the major load.

This team could be good, very good, and with breaks, possibly even great. Right now, it's a crap shoot. I'm going to lean toward the very good to near great and hope like hell I am under-estimating them.

[Snapshot9]

We will pretty well know what kind of team we have by the time they get back from Puerto Rico. They will be tested down there, and how well they do will probably help shape the rest of the season.

[KC Shox]

Why is it so hard to believe? Replacing JT and GB is a huge obstacle. We are doing it with unproven talent who have not played one minute of D1 ball. The only thing I care about regarding preseason polls and predictions is whether WSU is getting its name dropped. Nothing like free advertising. I may be in the minority but does anyone think that our frontcourt will play as good or better than last year's? I say no, and they probably won't start impressing until at least the mid-season mark.

[wsushox1]

Why is it so hard to believe? Replacing JT and GB is a huge obstacle. We are doing it with unproven talent who have not played one minute of D1 ball. The only thing I care about regarding preseason polls and predictions is whether WSU is getting its name dropped. Nothing like free advertising. I may be in the minority but does anyone think that our frontcourt will play as good or better than last year's? I say no, and they probably won't start impressing until at least the mid-season mark.

+∞

[WuDrWu]

You can choose to look at it a variety of ways. Yes, we lost 4 important pieces. Tough pieces to replace. Yet, whom else in the league returns 6 quality players such as Murry, Ragland, Kyles, Smith, Stutz and Williams? Murry is the best overall 2 in the league. Kyles is pretty salty and one of the best shooters in the league. Smith was the 6th man of the year. Ragland is as good as Young or at least darned close to as good. There isn't a Valley team that wouldn't beg for Stutz in the paint, not one. Williams is the best back up PG in the league, by far.

People quickly forget that WSU was 10 points better than everyone except MSU last season outside of an inexplicable loss to SIU, a horrible effort against UNI and the 2nd worst game in 2 years in the semis at St. Louis. The rest of the league wasn't that close to WSU to be fair.

WSU's returning 6 pieces have every bit as good a chance to improve as anyone else. If you think ISUB, for instance, is going to get better, I have no argument, but you have to assume that the Shocks will also improve, and they were better, quite a bit better, than the Trees to start with.

Certainly there will be a lot of changes, and it's more than possible that the sum will not be as great as it was last year. I get that.

Injuries can happen, guys can not get along, some players might get worse. But to me, it would take a lot of things going wrong to end up with WSU falling much from last year.

But as they say, time will tell.

I will say this, if the last 2 times I've seen EO play are indicative of what we'll see on a daily basis, and his learning curve continues on that pace, then I don't care for the chances of anyone besides Creighton being terribly competitive with WSU in the Valley.

It's still a game where if you can make the other team adjust to what you want to do, then you're going to be successful far more often than not.

Size like Stutz and Orupke, talent like Murry, shooting like Kyles and Smith combined with the overall athleticism and size the team possesses and you have a recipe for making almost every Valley team pick and choose where they hope you don't beat them. As long as we take the fight to them, I like our chances.

[ShoxFan963]

I think a lot of posters are underestimating the loss of Ellis. He never was given much credit for all the little things that he did; the leadership, the hustle, the screen setting, and the defense that shut down whomever he matched up against. Hopefully someone can step up and replace all of what Aaron brought to the team. If not, winning games just became a lot tougher.

[Dan]

If i'm coaching against wsu, i go at stutz early and often. Get him in foul trouble and make the wsu guards and newbies beat you. Wsu success will be dictated by how many minutes stutz can play and how quickly the other bigs get up to speed.

[WuDrWu]

I think a lot of posters are underestimating the loss of Ellis. He never was given much credit for all the little things that he did; the leadership, the hustle, the screen setting, and the defense that shut down whomever he matched up against. Hopefully someone can step up and replace all of what Aaron brought to the team. If not, winning games just became a lot tougher.

I love what Aaron brought but he averaged 4 and a half a game. Hall can get 4.5 in a minute, and he's a hoss and every bit the screener that Aaron was and AE was a GOOD screener. You don't have to clone a replacement. Some guys are going to better at this and worse at that.

It's not going to be last year's team. There will be no Graham Hatch. No Gabe Blair. No JT. No AE, but that team also didn't have Carl Hall and EO ready to go.

It will be an interesting season, for sure.

[WuDrWu]

Easier said than done Dan. In theory, it's a great plan and about the only way most teams can level the playing field. Of course, their bigs are far more likely to struggle stopping Garrett as well. And you have to get the ball to their bigs first, which I would contend won't be the easiest thing of all time with our guards pressure.

No doubt the ceiling of this team will be measured by how successful and consistent our bigs can be....but isn't that how most D1 teams will measure their own success?

[Aargh]

I'd like someone to name the last first-year player who was D1 ready at the beginning of the season. I think there was a lot of wishful thinking that Hall was going to be that guy. It shouldn't be any big surprise that he's having some problems adjusting to his role at this level. Unfortunately, most of WSU's more important games are early in the season, when the PF's will probably still be adjusting to D1 ball.

Maybe early in the season, the Shox will only have 4 effective players on offense. Hall isn't some slug, he just might not be as effective as what we're used to at PF. He's still going to have to be guarded. It won't be like teams will be able to double someone by not defending him. Ignore Hall's offense. That leaves WSU relying on Rags, Murry, Smith, Kyles, and Stutz for scoring. There are probably 320+ D1 teams who would rather have that than what they've got for an offense.

Maybe, early in the season, Hall's contribution is mainly rebounding, which isn't affected so much by where he's playing. 6 points and 6 boards would work pretty well.

All the reports say EO is "ready to go", but may have some "newbie" moments. If that's true, then WSU has one of the better 1-2 combinations at center in the nation. Maybe until Hall figures it out at PF, WSU plays Stutz and Orukpe and just plays to get boards, deny points in the paint, and put the scoring load on Stutz, Rags, Murry, Smith and Kyles. That could work in Puerto Rico and give Hall the time he needs to make the D1 adjustment.

[Dan]

Easier said than done Dan. In theory, it's a great plan and about the only way most teams can level the playing field. Of course, their bigs are far more likely to struggle stopping Garrett as well. And you have to get the ball to their bigs first, which I would contend won't be the easiest thing of all time with our guards pressure.

You forgot about the ol' dribble drive that we seem to have so much trouble defending. I agree with the sentiment that EO is going to be a big key for us this year. We need him to be able to perform while we wait for JA and Hall to get up to speed. Even Gabe Blair didn't really blossom until his senior year and he had a year of practice under his belt before being thrown into the mix.

[Kung Wu]

All the reports say EO is "ready to go", but may have some "newbie" moments. If that's true, then WSU has one of the better 1-2 combinations at center in the nation. Maybe until Hall figures it out at PF, WSU plays Stutz and Orukpe and just plays to get boards, deny points in the paint, and put the scoring load on Stutz, Rags, Murry, Smith and Kyles. That could work in Puerto Rico and give Hall the time he needs to make the D1 adjustment.

I was with you until right here. If you are suggesting either EO or Stutz play the 4 while Hall "figures it out", I think you may be in the group misreading the reaction to the practice a bit.

First of all Hall needs games to figure it out, not bench time. He has to be on the floor. Also, Hall may be learning a new roll and not "comfortable" with it yet, but he is still a dominating player that was absolutely tearing the glass up in practice. We want him on the floor, even if confused or making some newcomer mistakes. He is just that good. He is not confident outside the paint, but some games and game-time correction should cure that rather quickly in my opinion. It may take until after the tournament for it to be more natural for him, but I am very certain it will happen and we will be excellent when it does.

Also, EO or Stutz will not play the 4 better than Hall. They would all be in the same boat.

BTW -- one interesting matchup that probably won't happen due to Hall playing the 4 would be Hall vs Echenique. That would be two very similar body types duking it out.

And lastly this about Hall: HE MAKES HIS BUNNIES!

[WuDrWu]

Kung Wu nailed it. Gregg's system is not an easy system to learn, and that is what Hall is doing right now....learning something completely new and difficult. Juco ball is zone or man, and probably mostly just man (guard #55). It's not that way here. It's a thinking mans game, and it will take time to learn when and how to adjust. In the mean time make no mistake, Carl Hall is a man unlike all but about 3 post players in the Valley and he's got a motor like Ramon Clemente and he's more than ready to contribute on day 1.

Will Hall score the ball like JT? Probably not and he certainly doesn't have JT's range. But then, he may surpass JT's career rebounding total before the end of this semester and Carl knows how to set a pick.

The thought about the matchup with the big E is a good one. That's going to be 2 big men going at it and you better hide the women and the children.