WSU Versus Indiana Predictions and Pregame Discussions

[zlinedavid]

A) That nutjob does not speak for all IU fans. Nor do I, for that matter. But the vast majority of IU fans that I know have nothing but respect for Gregg Marshall.

B) I absolutely cringe at the term "power 5"if it's after the first week in January. For Football, its a concept that holds some (not complete, but some) credibility. For basketball, it's lazy thinking on the part of fans and "journalists" (not many today deserve that title, but that's a whole different soapbox).

The AAC and today's Big East don't get discounted in my book during basketball season. Why discount WSU, Marquette, Butler, etc basketball for not playing football? Programs like Uconn, Cincinnati and Houston don't matter as much because they're considered in a different classification in a different sport? Give me a break.

If Indiana wins tonight, I'll hold that victory in much higher standing compared with the "Power 5" wins we have over those powerhouses of Penn State and Illinois.

[WuDrWu]

I love when we get intelligent, passionate and fair fans from great programs migrate to this board and add to the discussion. Kind of wish we had a week or so to discuss basketball back and forth.

[molly jabali]

Agree WU

[TheShocktocles]

Big time game with a lot at stake. Played in a big time environment on national television.. This will be good for our young team. Go shocks you can do it. Beat the Hoosiers. All quiet on the front of the Northeast of Kansas.

[zlinedavid]

Post Bobby Knight, I’d like someone to convince me Indiana isn’t a mid-major team that just so happens to be in a power-five conference. Also, you are legit bananas if- given the constant coaching carousel and similarity in salaries- you think Indiana is a better coaching job than Wichita State.

I need to dig the link up, but there was an article recently that drew the line between a "blueblood" program and an "elite" program. Essentially, the author drew a basketball parallel to the terms "old money" and "new money". A blueblood program is one that has had sustained periods of success throughout history; the "old money". An elite program is one that's established a recent level of success; the "new money". Is it possible to be both? Absolutely. Elite status can wax and wane. Once the blueblood level has been hit, it takes a long time to fade.

Is Indiana a college basketball blueblood? Yes. We're still only one of 5 programs with 5 or more national titles. Are we one of the current elite programs? As much as I hate to say it, no. We're not irrelevant by any means, but are we at the absolute top tier of college basketball at the moment, no.

To answer your question regarding the post-Knight Era, I'd make the case that for the first 3 years after RMK, we were an equal if not better program. 1st round/Final Four/2nd round, with a B10 title mixed in. The two seasons that followed were the first speed bump. Davis just could not consistently recruit at a high level. He resigns, and the administration at the time has a chance to make a hire that would pull us back into regular contention. Instead, they drop a deuce in a bowl, hand it to us and call it "Kelvin Sampson",which lead to our current state of purgatory.

A question in reply: you mentioned the pay of WSU. Was the salary that high before Marshall? And if not, isn't that more reflective of Marshall's value vs the job itself?

[wichshock65]

Hey Pin, what day is it?!?!?!

[zlinedavid]

[WichitaStateGuy]

I need to dig the link up, but there was an article recently that drew the line between a "blueblood" program and an "elite" program. Essentially, the author drew a basketball parallel to the terms "old money" and "new money". A blueblood program is one that has had sustained periods of success throughout history; the "old money". An elite program is one that's established a recent level of success; the "new money". Is it possible to be both? Absolutely. Elite status can wax and wane. Once the blueblood level has been hit, it takes a long time to fade.

Is Indiana a college basketball blueblood? Yes. We're still only one of 5 programs with 5 or more national titles. Are we one of the current elite programs? As much as I hate to say it, no. We're not irrelevant by any means, but are we at the absolute top tier of college basketball at the moment, no.

To answer your question regarding the post-Knight Era, I'd make the case that for the first 3 years after RMK, we were an equal if not better program. 1st round/Final Four/2nd round, with a B10 title mixed in. The two seasons that followed were the first speed bump. Davis just could not consistently recruit at a high level. He resigns, and the administration at the time has a chance to make a hire that would pull us back into regular contention. Instead, they drop a deuce in a bowl, hand it to us and call it "Kelvin Sampson",which lead to our current state of purgatory.

A question in reply: you mentioned the pay of WSU. Was the salary that high before Marshall? And if not, isn't that more reflective of Marshall's value vs the job itself?

First off, I'm an Indiana fan. I have family that graduated from Purdue and live in Lafayette. I'm not debating whether Wichita State is a better program than Indiana--to do so would be absurdity. Like my initial comment said- post Bobby Knight- Wichita State is a better coaching job than Indiana.

Hypothetically, knowing what we know now about the two programs post Bobby Knight, if you were a coach that could jump in a time-machine and take either the head coaching job at Indiana or Wichita State, you're really telling me you would take Indiana? I think Mike Davis, Kelvin Sampson and Tom Crean would advise you to take the Wichita State gig.

In response to your last question, I think it's both--it shows Marshall's prowess, no doubt, but also the university's willingness to (and this is key) support a good coach, even in his bad years. Just looking at your forum, Indiana fans are calling for Archie's head while he's in the quarterfinals of the NIT with only his first recruiting class. Contrast that with our fan base who are OVER THE MOON with our coaches ability to motivate, win, and foster young talent.

Wish you the best tonight. Go Shox.

[molly jabali]

It's not always what you say, but show your team you care enough to at least stop the others teams momentum in the moment. The "I don't usually have much good to say during a timeout" is BS.

THIS!!!!! No one is asking him to go all Bill Self and run himself out, but for goodness sake, HAVE something good to say!!! Figure them through the tough spots once in a while...

[molly jabali]

I need to dig the link up, but there was an article recently that drew the line between a "blueblood" program and an "elite" program. Essentially, the author drew a basketball parallel to the terms "old money" and "new money". A blueblood program is one that has had sustained periods of success throughout history; the "old money". An elite program is one that's established a recent level of success; the "new money". Is it possible to be both? Absolutely. Elite status can wax and wane. Once the blueblood level has been hit, it takes a long time to fade.

Is Indiana a college basketball blueblood? Yes. We're still only one of 5 programs with 5 or more national titles. Are we one of the current elite programs? As much as I hate to say it, no. We're not irrelevant by any means, but are we at the absolute top tier of college basketball at the moment, no.

To answer your question regarding the post-Knight Era, I'd make the case that for the first 3 years after RMK, we were an equal if not better program. 1st round/Final Four/2nd round, with a B10 title mixed in. The two seasons that followed were the first speed bump. Davis just could not consistently recruit at a high level. He resigns, and the administration at the time has a chance to make a hire that would pull us back into regular contention. Instead, they drop a deuce in a bowl, hand it to us and call it "Kelvin Sampson",which lead to our current state of purgatory.

A question in reply: you mentioned the pay of WSU. Was the salary that high before Marshall? And if not, isn't that more reflective of Marshall's value vs the job itself?

Your 'duece in a bowl' comment made me laugh, but he's been BY FAR the best coach you've had since night...except for the cell phone thing.

[IndianaShocker]

For anyone unaware, Dakich does a daily radio show on Indy's ESPN station, 1070 the fan, from 12-3 EST. I listen via Tunein. Pretty sure it's also available on iHeart as well as other streaming apps.

I'm sure he'll have a good chunk of IU/WSU chatter. Many have disdain for DD, but I for one find we agree more often than not. IU "fanboys" and "blogger boys" (Dan's labeling), are common targets. One of the more entertaining radio shows in my opinion.

[Shock Top]

You mean like this?
https://247sports.com/college/kansas...ate-130468824/

KU is is just made because Auburn kicked their ass, took their lunch money, and then banged their girl right in front of them.

[RoyalShock]

Came across this vid of WuShock that an Indiana fan put together back in 2015, presumably prior to our tourney game with them.

[ABC]

My dad went to high school with Gene Keady, so sometimes I have a hard time rooting for Indiana. Obviously not tonight anyway !

[zlinedavid]

Your 'duece in a bowl' comment made me laugh, but he's been BY FAR the best coach you've had since night...except for the cell phone thing.

Sampson's undoing wasn't totally the cell phone situation. The '07-08 team had drugs running rampant through portions of the roster. Eric Gordon has stated this on the record. Sampson also wasn't even pretending to make some of his players go to class. In fact, the only NCAA sanctions placed on IU from Sampson's regime (that were not self-imposed anyway), were APR related.

X-O's, I agree. He's great. But that culture that he built during his tenure is a part of the downfall. A number of recruits, namely Tyler Zeller, turned down IU because of that reason.

The cultural mess was a big part of the reason that Crean got the job after Sampson. May not have been the absolute best coach (he's pretty good, but not great; UGA is a solid place for him), but in terms of character, he was a perfect fit at the time.

[Bluzrover]

Regardless of the outcome tonight, I just have to go on the record (again) and state how proud I am of this team. For probably the first time, I disagreed with WuDrWu and believed a run through the NIT, even a short one, would be beneficial for this young team. Plus, I really wanted to see Markis and Samajae get the chance to play a few more games for us, especially now that the newcomers seem to have figured this #PlayAngry thing out. It would seem they have rallied and are playing better each time they get on the court. Well, at least they're not folding when the going gets tough.

And how cool is it that they get to play the Indiana Hoosiers on their court in a game that actually means something? I won't fool myself, this isn't Clemson. Furman, on the other hand, was the real deal and our guys figured out how to knock them out. This Hoosier team is dangerous and will give us everything they've got tonight and that atmosphere will probably be the toughest the youngsters have ever faced.

Go Shocks!

[zlinedavid]

First off, I'm an Indiana fan. I have family that graduated from Purdue and live in Lafayette. I'm not debating whether Wichita State is a better program than Indiana--to do so would be absurdity. Like my initial comment said- post Bobby Knight- Wichita State is a better coaching job than Indiana.

Hypothetically, knowing what we know now about the two programs post Bobby Knight, if you were a coach that could jump in a time-machine and take either the head coaching job at Indiana or Wichita State, you're really telling me you would take Indiana? I think Mike Davis, Kelvin Sampson and Tom Crean would advise you to take the Wichita State gig.

In response to your last question, I think it's both--it shows Marshall's prowess, no doubt, but also the university's willingness to (and this is key) support a good coach, even in his bad years. Just looking at your forum, Indiana fans are calling for Archie's head while he's in the quarterfinals of the NIT with only his first recruiting class. Contrast that with our fan base who are OVER THE MOON with our coaches ability to motivate, win, and foster young talent.

Wish you the best tonight. Go Shox.

Actually, I can say with complete honesty, I think Davis and Crean would still pick Indiana. To an extent, I think Davis knew that taking over for Bob Knight was way too tall of an order as an initial head coaching job. And Crean has been nothing but complimentary about his time at Indiana. Being fired by Indiana hasn't hindered either one from finding future coaching work. Davis actually had a pretty solid run at Texas Southern, and is now at Detroit-Mercy. No animosity towards Davis or Crean from Indiana either. Davis even got a standing O when Texas Southern played an early season OOC game in Bloomington a few years ago.

I would put zero stock in what Sampson's answer was. He dug his own grave and paid the consequences.