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**asiseeit** · February 24, 2019, 10:59 AM

Getting really tired of the AM doubters. Way back when RT was starting I commented that if he is
starting next year we will be in big trouble. We will be a better TEAM when the seniors graduate and
we recruit over / replace RT and RB.

If we see Memphis again this year I'd like to see a box and one or triangle and two deployed.

ES was not in bad foul trouble until late and sat on the bench way too long while RT got 18 minutes.
I really believe if ES had played ten of RT's 18 minutes we would have won or if JB could have stayed
out of foul trouble.

**im4wsu** · February 24, 2019, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by TheShocktocles View Post

Lomax did not make plays to lose his team the game tonight.. JB fouled a 3point shooter, made silly charges , and constantly fouled and took our team out of rhythm. Still I like him better than Lonax, but Lomax played smarter tonight. Sometime the goal of the quarterback is to manage the team and not make mistakes.

You mean like 4-8 shooting, 1o points, 4 rebounds, 9 assists and 2 turnovers in 19 minutes? That type of PG play is what you're after?

**shoxlax** · February 24, 2019, 11:47 AM

With all due respect to Cumberland, Shizz, Davis, and Taylor, Martin should be MVP of the league. Dude is a whiner and pompous, but he has a total offensive arsenal.

**im4wsu** · February 24, 2019, 11:49 AM

I'm sort of getting used to AM and JE missing gimmes at the rim, and MM doing his flip-flopping dipsy-doodle nothings in the lane, but DD missed two apparently very wide open shots not a foot away from the rim.

**ShockRef** · February 24, 2019, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by 1989 View Post

Lets inject some facts into this conversation. You are carrying on as if Memphis went on this giant run and we weren’t able to answer back because of how HCGM managed his timeouts. That notion is simply not what happened. We did come back. We went on a 9-0 run and cut it down to 2. The irony of your point is that two of our major screw ups- the dex and then the Erik foul- came following timeouts. Also, Martin is averaging 30.7 in his last 7 games. It is naive to think that calling a more timely timeout would have stopped him. Wouldn’t you be willing to bet that all those other teams who Martin lit up has coaches who uses timeouts in the way you just expressed you would prefer?

Also, Penny ain’t out coaching anyone. Anyone who was at the game and had a view of the Memphis huddle during the timeouts saw that Mike Miller was running a lot of them. Especially down the stretch. They also have a former NBA head coach on their bench. Penny is a face and a name. The real coaching is being done by others. Furthermore, having a guy that another coach (josh pastner) recruited who has being going off for 30+ in every game lately shouldn’t be confused as a dude making better coaching adjustments than his opponent.

You actually make a couple of valid points.
Penny is just a face and name plate. Miller is probably, err, most likely, doing the in game coaching and adjustments. So in effect you are saying Miller made the proper adjustments and HCGM did...what?
From a 44-40 game, it went to 58-49, with the only offense an Echenique trey and finally HCGM called a TO. If you watched the game, you had to see (or witness) 6 straight WSU possessions that included 2 T/O's 4 wild shots and an offense in total disarray. It was a 22-7 start to the second half and if you are defending this, you are either blind, dumb or a family relative.

That is all.

**BOBB** · February 24, 2019, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Topshock View Post

A couple on here love to lump JE and AM together, declare a good game by the 5's and move on, and interestingly they are the AM lovers. I give AM credit when he deserves it. He does have some offensive skills, but he was back to being awful on defense last night. Still ranked well below 10% on Defense even after his "best" games of the year. Overall he is miles behind a healthy JE as a player.

Found GM's post game comment: "It is really thin over there when I have to go to the bench" interesting. Seems to indicate that if WSU can find the players, there will be a lot of changes in the off season.

So HCGM is saying we can win when we have the better players? That was doable in the Valley. We are going to have to win games where we don't have the best player 1-5 every time out in this conference. If we recruit at a very high level, maybe we can count on having two of the best players on the floor any given night. The teams that are trying in this league, the upper 2/3 can get some pretrybgood players too. We still have to manage to win some of those games.

**ShockTalk** · February 24, 2019, 12:24 PM

I think too many posters undervalue Memphis 5 starting seniors. They played about 80% of the minutes last. Martin has been on a big roll, so it's not just us. He's averaged 30.7 ppg over the last 7 games. Take out the 12 pt game and it's 33.8 ppg over 6 games. We seriously lack experienced players (don't try to throw SHJ in as an experienced player) at that position to counter a person who is now regularly putting up big numbers, I don't care how good (or bad as some think) a coach is on our bench.

Add to that player a lot of experience at all the other positions and that's tough for such a young team as ours. You saw 4 star Antwann Jones play a total of only 3 minutes last night. While Harris has become their 6th man, Lomax and Jones minutes overall have gotten smaller as the season goes along. That's 3 four star freshmen on the bench and only 1 is seeing regular, solid minutes. They're not getting the minutes because of the experienced players above them. They are the backups. Who are our backups? Certainly not 4 star players.

Nevertheless, our less experienced team managed two good runs over 20 minutes for a total of 58-32. That lack of higher quality depth and general lack of experience also produced a 27-56 performance over 2 bad runs over 20 minutes.

Old News: We had to replace 6 seniors and a sophomore who went to the NBA (doing quite successfully I might add). That is HCGM's fault. Add to that AR leaves along with Keyser and we need to fill their spots very late. Due to this large group of newbies, *hit will happen. Maybe who was our best recruit wasn't eligible to play this year. 1 recruit doesn't cut it and moves on early. Another gets injured. Now we have a short bench. After all this, we are still in a good position to finish in the middle of a quality conference.

Add: I didn't like starting the 2nd half without a PG on the floor (SHJ ain't a PG). HCGM still uses timeouts poorly.

**ShockRef** · February 24, 2019, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by BOBB View Post

So HCGM is saying we can win when we have the better players? That was doable in the Valley. We are going to have to win games where we don't have the best player 1-5 every time out in this conference. If we recruit at a very high level, maybe we can count on having two of the best players on the floor any given night. The teams that are trying in this league, the upper 2/3 can get some pretrybgood players too. We still have to manage to win some of those games.

BOBB,
Bingo and you move onto the bonus round!
We are in agreement again. It's absolute madness and if it keeps up, may lead to all out pandemonium.

That is all.

**Speak2me** · February 24, 2019, 12:26 PM

I stayed off this thread last night, as the loss really ticked me off. Absolutely stunned to see people defending HCGM in this thread. 16 point lead to an 11 point deficit before calling a timeout is shitty coaching. This is just fact. I get he is all about “having the players figure it out themselves”, but this team is freshman and can’t figure it out themselves. I sat next to a Memphis fan who literally said “I thought you were supposed to have a good coach? Why does he not call timeouts?” All I could do is shrug and say “I have no idea”.

**1972Shocker** · February 24, 2019, 12:27 PM

So the Shocks remain on the roller coaster. Looking for this wild ride to end soon. I think I may be getting motion sickness.

**newshock1234** · February 24, 2019, 12:29 PM

I just put my hand over my head, when MM got switch up on Lomax in the post at the end of the game, decided the best shot was a fadaway. SMH

**Aargh** · February 24, 2019, 12:57 PM

I had low expectations coming into the season. Lots of new players and no PG with any D1 experience on the roster. That's a recipe for disaster and I was expecting that. Then the La Tech game convinced me my expectations had been too high. Now a loss to Memphis in CKA doesn't bother me much. I can actually look at the team (and the coaching) and be pleasantly surprised they're doing as well as they are.

Before the season started, there was A LOT of speculation of a top-3 conference finish and being on the NCAA bubble. Some of those posters are disappointed, criticizing the coach, criticizing the players, etc. Unreal and unlikely expectations often lead to disappointment. I was expecting a conference finish in the 6 - 9 range this year. Mentioning that in October was pretty unpopular. Compared to some of the posts in this thread, now I'm a sunshine pumper.

I think some posters were expecting to see multiple NBA players in our group of new players. Now those same posters are making lists of who has to be run off because they can't play at this level. I agree that some players need to leave, but that's because we're going to repeat this process in a few years if next yea'r So class doesn't get thinned down.

**ShockingButTrue** · February 24, 2019, 12:58 PM

The Shockers looked hesitant, unsure, and intimidated, basically lacking focus. And that was with a big lead 10 minutes into the game. Memphis, on the other hand, looked like a veteran team.

Hopefully (prayerfully) it did (does) come down to just a simple matter of inexperience.

**1989** · February 24, 2019, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by ShockRef View Post

You actually make a couple of valid points.
Penny is just a face and name plate. Miller is probably, err, most likely, doing the in game coaching and adjustments. So in effect you are saying Miller made the proper adjustments and HCGM did...what?
From a 44-40 game, it went to 58-49, with the only offense an Echenique trey and finally HCGM called a TO. If you watched the game, you had to see (or witness) 6 straight WSU possessions that included 2 T/O's 4 wild shots and an offense in total disarray. It was a 22-7 start to the second half and if you are defending this, you are either blind, dumb or a family relative.

That is all.

I’m not saying that Miller, Penny, or anyone else on that Memphis bench made a proper adjustment. What I am saying is that they have a guy who is averaging over 30 points in his last 7 games and that telling your team to get him the ball shouldn’t be framed as this super clever coaching adjustment.

They went on a run and guess what? We went on a run too. It was a game of runs, which happens. What I am defending against is this silly point of yours that Marshall’s use of timeouts is why we couldn’t get back in the game and stop their run, when we did in fact get back in the game and stop their run. Part of the reason why we couldn’t complete the comeback was because following the timeouts, the players didn’t do what was told to them.

**Chickenhawk hunter** · February 24, 2019, 03:07 PM

In my opinion, I still say this team will be better without MM and SMHJ, The problem we have with these two is not that they are not good teammates. The problem is they are not go to players with HBIQ. Stupid decisions down the stretch and not driving and dishing to the open guy. Not looking for the better shot. We continue to make freshman mistakes from senior personnel. I blame not only these two for not being better at decision making but HCGM for not telling these guys to be better teammates. Our freshman have struggled no doubt, but they share the ball and try to do the right things. Our seniors are selfish and try to do too much. JMO.

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