Wichita State vs VCU Game Thread

[Shox The Revenant]

We need players that can shoot and score. For example I heard all this stuff this summer about ES can shoot. Blah blah blah. ES was 1-10 against Davidson. 2-9 against OU. 1-9 against Southern Mississippi. 1-9 against ORU and today 1-7 against VCU. I dont want to hear another thing about his so-called floor game until he start knocking down some shots.

ES is shooting 31% overall from the field and 26% from the 3 point line. Heck, Ron Baker shot 40%/36% and FVV shot 39%/40% their freshman seasons. ES is gritty, tough and I like his enthusiasm, but those intangibles can only go so far - he's going to need to start increasing his shooting percentage 10 points in each area in order to start making an impact for this team. Hope he finds his shot soon.

[shelback]

Ron was a Redshirt freshman and Fred wasn't on the floor as much a Eric and had guys around him that were really good.

[Topshock]

Perhaps he is more of a Evan Wessel than a Ron Baker.

[MelvinLoudermilk]

ES is shooting 31% overall from the field and 26% from the 3 point line. Heck, Ron Baker shot 40%/36% and FVV shot 39%/40% their freshman seasons. ES is gritty, tough and I like his enthusiasm, but those intangibles can only go so far - he's going to need to start increasing his shooting percentage 10 points in each area in order to start making an impact for this team. Hope he finds his shot soon.

I think he will. 9 months ago he was playing high school basketball now he's starting for a team that has been a powerhouse for a decade. He's been thrown in the deep end and will learn to swim

[TheShocktocles]

Sigh! I am sorry but I am not buying anymore of this stuff about needing to adjust. He is suppose to be a shooter. Heck Randy Burns came here partially unknown but could shoot. The same with others. ES has got to start knocking down shots.

[ShockTalk]

I believe I read where ES was a .350 3pt shooter in HS. I don't equate that as being a reliable 3pt shooter in college.

[1979Shocker]

When it comes to shooting, you either have it or you don't. If you have it, then you should made wide open 3's half the time, sort of like how Shamet did when he was here. If you don't have it and want to have it, then you need to spend more time in the gym shooting 3's until it becomes automatic.

[AZ Shocker]

Gotta be all mental for him. Crossing fingers he gets it figured out cause we need him!

[Aargh]

Check ES's HS shooting stats. He scored a lot in HS, but he shot a lot. He only became known as a knockdown shooter AFTER he got to WSU and fans got hopeful.

Zach Brown was a career 43.4 / 33.4
Kelly was 47 / 31.9

And fans cringed any time either of those guys shot a jumper. But everybody wants the ball in ES's hanbds so he can shoot more often. I. Do. Not. Understand!

Partial list of players who will not be guarded on the perimeter: Ricky Torres, Eric Stevenson, Dexter Dennis, Jamarius Burton, Rod Brown

[Kung Wu]

Farrakhan carried the ball well for the spot minutes he played. I think he was thrown to the wolves a bit and might have made a bad pass, but for the most part he didn't crumble under pressure.

[asiseeit]

Comparing current player stats to former player stats or players in any way is simply meaningless. Agree that
ES has not shot the ball well but he rebounds, defends, sees the court and takes pretty good care of the ball.
I have not noticed ANY opponent sag on him. His intensity is an intangible that can't be measured. There is a
reason he led the team in minutes the last couple games despite poor shooting. We don't have anyone he is
shooting well which means, as a team, we really have to defend well, rebound and play with energy. Thus ES.
For the next couple months at least we are going to see all three centers play with MM and RB at the four spot.
I am hoping JB starts with RT backing up that spot. ES and DD complete a nine man rotation. Doesn't matter
much who starts but who plays together except I really don't like playing two small guards together at the same time.

[TheShocktocles]

Check ES's HS shooting stats. He scored a lot in HS, but he shot a lot. He only became known as a knockdown shooter AFTER he got to WSU and fans got hopeful.

Zach Brown was a career 43.4 / 33.4
Kelly was 47 / 31.9

And fans cringed any time either of those guys shot a jumper. But everybody wants the ball in ES's hanbds so he can shoot more often. I. Do. Not. Understand!

Partial list of players who will not be guarded on the perimeter: Ricky Torres, Eric Stevenson, Dexter Dennis, Jamarius Burton, Rod Brown

We did not expect Rod Brown or Jamarius Burton to be 3point shooters. It was not their game. But Torres, Dennis, and Stevenson were expected to be 3 point shooters. So far they have been a disappointment. I am not unhappy that ZBROWN has graduated. He could not shoot, dribble or make a pass without throwing it out of bounds. I think the current players are better but have not showed it. R Kelly was not a 3 point shooter but he played with passion and knew his game was to crash the boards and score inside. I would take ANY current player playing with the same kind of passion Kellys displayed.

[pinstripers]

Well...…...we're not very good.

[Stickboy46]

Check ES's HS shooting stats. He scored a lot in HS, but he shot a lot. He only became known as a knockdown shooter AFTER he got to WSU and fans got hopeful.

Zach Brown was a career 43.4 / 33.4
Kelly was 47 / 31.9

And fans cringed any time either of those guys shot a jumper. But everybody wants the ball in ES's hanbds so he can shoot more often. I. Do. Not. Understand!

Partial list of players who will not be guarded on the perimeter: Ricky Torres, Eric Stevenson, Dexter Dennis, Jamarius Burton, Rod Brown

Dennis is shooting 37% from 3 on the year. That's not bad all things considered. I hope they don't guard him on the perimeter.

[ShockRef]

Check ES's HS shooting stats. He scored a lot in HS, but he shot a lot. He only became known as a knockdown shooter AFTER he got to WSU and fans got hopeful.

Zach Brown was a career 43.4 / 33.4
Kelly was 47 / 31.9

And fans cringed any time either of those guys shot a jumper. But everybody wants the ball in ES's hanbds so he can shoot more often. I. Do. Not. Understand!

Partial list of players who will not be guarded on the perimeter: Ricky Torres, Eric Stevenson, Dexter Dennis, Jamarius Burton, Rod Brown

ES had a really bad game but ease up on him. He is pushing and pushing hard to fill-in the role for both DD and him. Give him some time - he will be fine.

Surprised no one on here commented about the start of the second half when VCU ripped off 12 straight points until HCGM FINALLY called a time out.
Game. Set. Match.

Every other coach in college basketball would have snapped after 3 straight baskets and tackled an official for a time out. HCGM remained stubborn and let the tidal wave roll on until it was 49-34 and then decide he had seen enough.
That is just stubborn bullshit.

Fred and Ron are gone and not coming back. Start coaching this team as though they are a bunch of inexperienced freshmen and not seasoned NBA caliber players.

That is all.

[proshox]

The worst part of not calling a timeout... McDuffie was the one that gave up a couple looking completely out of it.

[Shockm]

It’s not unique that Freshman shooting (both free throw and 3 point) stats are lower than they will become during their career. Freshmen have to make a lot of adjustments and have new experiences away from home that are difficult. We don’t get an opportunity to see them in practice situations but coaches do and most likely have a pretty good idea as to how good of a shooter they actually will be. Their Sophomore year wi likely be a coming out year for some. That doesn’t help us now but giving up on Freshmen may be a bad idea. That is where we need to trust the coaches.

Eric S. Has shown us glimpses as has DD. I’m less sure about JB.

[ShockTalk]

Somewhere on SN, I thought I read where this would be a battle of 2 young teams. If I did read this, there is no comparison.

VCU players by minutes played in game: RS Jr 31m, RS Jr 30m (both of these players were D-I transfers), Jr 26m, So 23, So 20, Jr 15, Fr 12, So 11, Sr 10, Fr 10, Jr 8, Fr 4.

WSU players by minutes played in game: Fr 33m, Fr 32m, Sr 31, 1st y Jr (JUCO) 29, Fr 19, Sr (JUCO) 18, RS Fr 13, 1st y Jr (JUCO) 9, Fr 8, So 4, 1st y Jr walk-on (JUCO) 4.

By my count including D-I RS years that's VCU 18 years, WSU 5.

On the road without a key Fr in DD and our starting 5 missing 2/3s of the game to injury leaving while we had a 5 point lead.

I think one would be hard pressed to find a younger D-I experienced team without any 5 star freshmen.

[Stickboy46]

Somewhere on SN, I thought I read where this would be a battle of 2 young teams. If I did read this, there is no comparison.

VCU players by minutes played in game: RS Jr 31m, RS Jr 30m (both of these players were D-I transfers), Jr 26m, So 23, So 20, Jr 15, Fr 12, So 11, Sr 10, Fr 10, Jr 8, Fr 4.

WSU players by minutes played in game: Fr 33m, Fr 32m, Sr 31, 1st y Jr (JUCO) 29, Fr 19, Sr (JUCO) 18, RS Fr 13, 1st y Jr (JUCO) 9, Fr 8, So 4, 1st y Jr walk-on (JUCO) 4.

By my count including D-I RS years that's VCU 18 years, WSU 5.

On the road without a key Fr in DD and our starting 5 missing 2/3s of the game to injury leaving while we had a 5 point lead.

I think one would be hard pressed to find a younger D-I experienced team without any 5 star freshmen.

You don't have to caveat that with the 5 star thing. We are the 5th least experienced team in D1. That's not counting having people out or having our experienced players sitting due to BS foul calls

[ShockTalk]

Do you know who the other 4 are?

[shoxlax]

http://www.barttorvik.com/returningmins.php

If this is right looks like UTA, Ashville and Mount St Marys. Not exactly teams playing our schedule.

[ShockingButTrue]

This Fr. class doesn't appear to be as good as Turg's Frosh class of Burn, Kampamn, Howard and Miller (Redshirt). That class never advanced beyond and NIT.

For what it's worth...

[wusphlash]

Probably not wise to project career results based on the first 11 games of their freshman season. Just sayin.

[ShockingButTrue]

My statement was possibly a little knee-jerk, but isn't that to be expected after some of the -ahem- "wild shots" I saw yesterday, and the last several games too?... And it wasn't all SHJ.

... Not as good was maybe a little hasty. How about "appears about equal to?" No?

[proshox]

Howard would be a stud on any shocker team. Just an insane combination of hops, quick twitch, strength, and intensity.

Burns was game ready day 1, but never really had the ceiling a NCAA tournament team needs.

Kampman was pretty damn good as a freshman. Could finish garbage around the basket and drill threes. I think he shot just a clip under 50% his first year.

Miller was equal to AM. A big kid that needed lots of game time to become really good.

There were other dudes in that class that didn’t shake out, but had that athletic upside that made them worth a try.

I think one of the issues with this recruiting class is that every other recruit would have assumed they were buried on the depth chart behind Landry, Austin, and Jones for at least two years. Big time players were locked up by the time LS, AR were gone, SHJ had shown issues with D1 and Lomax backed out.

People ***** about unbalanced classes - this class looks quite a bit different if HCGM had been promising starting minutes to dudes a year ago while out on the recruiting trail.