Players auditioning for team?

[RoyalShock]

Bottom Line: Do you know that Hatch is "more of a liability than an asset"?

For the sake of argument, let's say Hatch can shoot and play defense.

Can he protect the ball?

Can he execute his position on offense in order to get an opportunity to utilize his strength (shooting)?

IMO, freshman who aren't getting minutes are good bets to be turnover prone and disrupt the offense.

If you listened to the coach's show he explained what happened on the last posession Saturday. An unnamed player (he wouldn't name the player but I got the impression it was a freshman), did not execute his role in the set. And this happened not once, but twice on the same posession (separated by the timeout).

[SpanglerFan316]

Royal: Good questions. I don't know enough about Hatch to form an opinion of his ability. I didn't hear the coach's remarks; which freshmen were in the game at the end?
01:22 SUB IN : Ellis, Aaron
00:17 SUB IN : Butler, Arbry
00:14 SUB OUT: Butler, Arbry
00:09 TIMEOUT 30sec
00:02 MISSED 3 PTR by Braeuer, Matt

I now know why we lost !!!!!!! We put in one player and took out four players.
03:30 MISSED FT SHOT by Durley, JT
03:30 SUB IN : Couisnard, PJ
03:30 SUB OUT: Preadom, Wendell
03:30 SUB OUT: Ellis, Aaron
03:30 SUB OUT: Durley, JT
03:30 SUB OUT: Clemente, Ramon

http://www.umkckangaroos.com/fls/18300/200708stats/m-basketball/20071215.htm?SPSID=61179&SPID=2851&DB_OEM_ID=7500

[jocoshock]

Some random thoughts from reading this thread.

GM said on the coaches show that he spoke with team and delivered this message: "I/we are going to turn this program, it's going to happen, it's just a question of when. Could be this year, I would like to be this year. Do you want to be here when it turns?"

That wasn't a threat in anyway, just a message that it WILL happen and if you want to be a part of it, then we need to start executing - now.

Regarding Turgeon vs. Marshall and recruiting - I will never forget watching Winthrop last year in the pre-season (NIT?) tourney against North Carolina. My jaw dropped when I saw the ATHLETES playing for Winthrop vs. the players we had/have at WSU. Keep in mind this was during our phenomenal/meteoric rise to a number 8 rating. The disparity between our team and theirs (Winthrop) was staggering. Don't forget his 2006 team lost to Tennessee on a desperation basket. If they had beaten Tennessee, it's quite likely they could have beaten us and gone on to a S16 berth, and quite likely could have matched up better against George Mason than we did. You can project where Winthrop might have ended up from there....

As far as the audition comments are concerned, take them at face value. It means some guys may or may not be back next year based on how they progress or don't this year. There's no reason for us to speculate any further.

Marshall is focused - he will get us where we need to be sometime in the next 3 seasons (this one included). You can count on it....

:goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks:

[mulligan]

Spangler, Come on. Winthrop last year knocked Missouri State completely out of an NCAA Tournament. Missouri State was steam rolling at that point and lost at home to Winthrop 77-66. I would venture to say Winthrop would have competed for the Missoure Valley Championship last year. And by the way, in that game, Winthrop was leading by 20 or so. The loss hurt so bad, if you go to Missouri States web site, they left the game completely off their 2006-2007 season results. If I was a betting man, I would bet this was no accident. http://www.missouristatebears.com/Sp...&Q_SEASON=2006

[ShockerInKC]

I just don't think we're very good this year, nor are we going to 'turn a corner' anytime soon. Our inside size problems are well commented on. What I haven't seen as much comment on is my belief that our best player (PJ) is playing out of position. Maybe it's the new offensive scheme, or maybe it's easier to fit a 6'2" swingman into a scheme where there is either a dead-eye 3pt shooter (SO) or a true center (PM). The guy looks lost. My wife likes basketball but is no analyist of the game; she asked why PJ stands out at the 3pt line, waits for someone to pass to him, then telegraphs a pass to someone else at the 3pt line. Yeah, I know he occationally drives and until recently has hit OK from 3. No knock on his defense.

I just think I'll remember this year as the year we wasted a great shocker talent.

Having said this I'm still pulling for the guys and coach. Still driving to the games.

[shockmonster]

Tough minded teams win close games. UMKC was getting more loose balls than us and was outhustling us. Little things like this win close games. When you are ahead by 8 pts. (UTA) and 13 points, you have to close the deal. We haven't held a lead during a game the entire year. This is what they are auditioning for.

[wsu789]

It seems to me PJ is playing the 3, where he's pretty much always played. His success this year has come off the bounce. He needs to drive or post up smaller players.

I think you are correct that he is missing guys from the last few years who were better shooters and better scorers inside--Miller, Ogirri, Wilson, Bradley. They could take some of the pressure off of him.

[ISASO]

If PJ thinks he is NBA material, he needs to embrace that pressure, feed off that pressure and deliver the goods.

Until someone else gets it going, this team needs him to do more than play defense and score 11.7 points a game in 32 minutes of action. On a normal night he needs to get 15-20. For games against LSU and UAB? Impress the scouts and give the team a chance to win. We probably need to have 25 out of him.

It's time to make a statement.

[SpanglerFan316]

Some random thoughts from reading this thread.

GM said on the coaches show that he spoke with team and delivered this message: "I/we are going to turn this program, it's going to happen, it's just a question of when. Could be this year, I would like to be this year. Do you want to be here when it turns?"

That wasn't a threat in anyway, just a message that it WILL happen and if you want to be a part of it, then we need to start executing - now.

Regarding Turgeon vs. Marshall and recruiting - I will never forget watching Winthrop last year in the pre-season (NIT?) tourney against North Carolina. My jaw dropped when I saw the ATHLETES playing for Winthrop vs. the players we had/have at WSU. Keep in mind this was during our phenomenal/meteoric rise to a number 8 rating. The disparity between our team and theirs (Winthrop) was staggering. Don't forget his 2006 team lost to Tennessee on a desperation basket. If they had beaten Tennessee, it's quite likely they could have beaten us and gone on to a S16 berth, and quite likely could have matched up better against George Mason than we did. You can project where Winthrop might have ended up from there....

As far as the audition comments are concerned, take them at face value. It means some guys may or may not be back next year based on how they progress or don't this year. There's no reason for us to speculate any further.

Marshall is focused - he will get us where we need to be sometime in the next 3 seasons (this one included). You can count on it....

:goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks: :goshocks:

I hope this is all a "tough love" approach. I don't mind losing this year if it makes us a lot better in the future.

[SpanglerFan316]

If PJ thinks he is NBA material, he needs to embrace that pressure, feed off that pressure and deliver the goods.

Until someone else gets it going, this team needs him to do more than play defense and score 11.7 points a game in 32 minutes of action. On a normal night he needs to get 15-20. For games against LSU and UAB? Impress the scouts and give the team a chance to win. We probably need to have 25 out of him.

It's time to make a statement.

Actually, if PJ wants to play in the NBA, he needs to be the next "AC Green." In college, AC was a "smooth" player (like PJ can be). In the NBA, he was a "no ego" player who put a huge amount of work into his outside shot when the Lakers asked him to do this. He was "all drive" and worked on his game throughout his career. He was tough (e.g. playing the night after another player hit him and broke his jaw). He out-worked and out-toughed other NBA players and he did whatever the Lakers asked him to do. If PJ wants to play in the NBA, AC should be his role model. (Yes, I am an "old Lakers" fan. Kobe - no way.)

[SpanglerFan316]

Tough minded teams win close games. UMKC was getting more loose balls than us and was outhustling us. Little things like this win close games. When you are ahead by 8 pts. (UTA) and 13 points, you have to close the deal. We haven't held a lead during a game the entire year. This is what they are auditioning for.

This is a candidate for post-of-the-year. We're not tough. (Of course, this is obvious to everyone so I guess this isn't post-of-the-year material after all but I still agree with the remarks. PT is not tough. Matt is tough; I hope he lasts the season. PJ doesn't always play smart and gets too many fouls; I'm not certain about PJ's toughness.)

[Maggie]

Spangler – I do think what Marshall is doing will make WSU better in the long run. I always thought things were going to be difficult early in the season. If you step back and look at the situation, WSU could easily be 7-2 rather than 5-4 and we would not be having these discussions. Of course, as a wise man once said you are what your record says you are – or something like that.

It is hard for me to judge how "tough" this team is because I cannot watch the games. However, Marshall says they are not tough enough and that is good enough for me. I can't believe I am writing this but you might be being a little hard on PT. Yes – he has a history of weakness, for lack of a better term, but as far as I can tell he is playing hard this year. It was PT bleeding all of the floor against UMKC and according to Kennedy he was not backing down against a taller, heavier opponent. Personally, I think PT has played to the best of his ability this year. The player that aggravated me more than anyone else against UMKC was PJ. His defense was fundamentally flawed in the second half and completely contrary to Marshall's game plan. If I were him I would be embarrassed.

If WSU is getting out worked on the court then that is a BIG problem. They can't afford to lose the 50/50 lose balls and get rebounds "ripped" away from them.

I think the problem is more mental than physical. The team does not seem to be able to execute in the clutch and in my opinion blame for that falls squarely on the returning players. PJ, MB, PT and even WP need to lead the way.

[newshock1234]

I think Mr. Durley deserves one of those preciousl starting spots. He has been our most consistent post player

[wsu789]

Durley gives up way too much on the defensive end to start. I agree he is consistent. He is a consistent threat to score ... and to allow his man to score. I hope that he'll get better (and tougher) on that end during the course of the season.

[newshock1234]

Durley gives up way too much on the defensive end to start. I agree he is consistent. He is a consistent threat to score ... and to allow his man to score. I hope that he'll get better (and tougher) on that end during the course of the season.

phil is just as bad