Assuming 9 player rotation for WSU - who do you see that will be?

[pinstripers]

SHJ is a good outside shooter. He prefers to go inside and be unsuccessful, however.

[1972Shocker]

I think this year you are more likely to see Samajae pull up for the 12 to 15 footer as much or more than he takes it all the way to the hoop. But we weill see. He needs to take it to the hole enough for that to be a threat to make that pull up jumper work best. But I share your concern that his decision making may or may not hold up once the lights go on.

[Bluzrover]

Based on the most recent report from Taylor, it would appear SHJ has been working on pulling up at the foul line. I'm hopeful he'll also be mindful of the big(s) on either side of the rim to whom he might consider dumping the ball of to once he's comfronted by the opposing team's post player. I'm encouraged by 3G's comments about him that lead me to believe that SHJ will, like a majority of JUCOs that come to WSU, be a much improved player this year over last year's edition.

[Aargh]

I think this team will be more of a drive to the basket team than a 3-point shooting team. There appear to be some guys who can actually get to the basket rather than have to kick out to a 3 shooter. Unfortunately, most of the better teams in the AAC seem to have guys who can drive to the basket AND spot up for a 3 if the driver gets stopped.

[1972Shocker]

I think this team will be more of a drive to the basket team than a 3-point shooting team. There appear to be some guys who can actually get to the basket rather than have to kick out to a 3 shooter. Unfortunately, most of the better teams in the AAC seem to have guys who can drive to the basket AND spot up for a 3 if the driver gets stopped.

In the scrimmage, Teddy Allen was, far and away, the best we had of getting to the basket. Problem is Teddy may or may not play this year. I don't recall anyone else really standing out in that area. Jamarius game-winning move to score the winning basket was impressive but it was more of using his strengh to push Samajae to the baseline and shoot a runner 6 to 8 foot out over Morris. If Teddy plays he will certainly provide that skill. Dexter certainly looks like he should be able to get to the basket but he also looks like he as a good mid-range game that could be effecctive.

My very early thinking is that this team will have to hang their hat on defense and perhaps try to generate as much offense as possible in transition.

[C0|dB|00ded]

SHJ still plays out of control which is not good.

Don't worry, DnD will show you his range and ability to finish at the basket - give him a few games to relax - he came from an area where he played in total obscurity. Power 6 schools are still scratching their heads how they missed on him. And wait until you see Mr. Stretch's mid-range game; you will start reminiscing about the Paul Miller era.

I cannot explain Chance Moore's afternoon. I still have him way down the depth chart.

The new players I'm most excited about are: DnD, Stevenson (still wish he was taller), Burton, and Echenique.


T


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[C0|dB|00ded]

I forgot to mention Teddy lol...

It's just a foregone conclusion that he's a freaking game-changer. He could make a living off garbage baskets alone. Teddy 3-ball detractors will love the one he uncorked on that fine afternoon. Gawd it was ugly LOL. Don't worry, he can hit a few too. Hitting 3's is as much about confidence as it is technique. Teddy has as much confidence as the entire team.

P.S. Did anybody watch Teddy play a little defense? There's work to be done but I saw him do some nice things preventing the pass/drive.


T


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[Shockm]

SHJ still plays out of control which is not good.

Don't worry, DnD will show you his range and ability to finish at the basket - give him a few games to relax - he came from an area where he played in total obscurity. Power 6 schools are still scratching their heads how they missed on him. And wait until you see Mr. Stretch's mid-range game; you will start reminiscing about the Paul Miller era.

I cannot explain Chance Moore's afternoon. I still have him way down the depth chart.

The new players I'm most excited about are:...................and Echenique.


T


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It's interesting that in 8 minutes, Jamie had 1 turnover, 1 block, and 1 foul. He played less minutes than any of the other posts. Maybe he was being disciplined or something but he didn't do very much in the 8 minutes he played.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Well Stevenson was listed as our preeminent 2 coming in. A 2 Stevenson's size at our level is a detriment. I thought he'd be 6'3-4 with shoes. He's more like 6'2 with shoes. If he moves over to PG, which I think is his plan (he sure as **** has zero chance of going to the NBA as a 2), I'll be happier.

Stevenson is thicker than Conner but not much taller. I don't think he's quicker either. He does have much longer arms and a better vertical. Conner was very quick and could shoot lights out (with the lights out)...


T


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[Slykryck]

Conner wasn’t quite as “lights out” as I thought his senior year. Only year he shot above 40% from deep was junior year in the valley. He struggled to get his own shot against the competition in the American. Stevenson could suffer the same fate due to height playing the 2 and given that I doubt he’s as much of a knock down shooter as Conner, it could be worse.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Notice i said "lights out" (with the lights out). CF was HCGM's greatest shooter of all time... in practice.


T


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[asiseeit]

First, a nine man rotation is a faulty assumption until at least February and probably not even then.
Second, there will be a few players play themselves in at times and out in others. Third, we will play
at least three centers which would only leave six to play the other four positions. I fully expect to
see at least twelve guys, thirteen with Allen, play enough for us all to make our evaluations. I can
say this with a great deal of certainty. As each game progresses minute by minute there will be
many of you cursing some players one minute and praising them another. This is going to be a very
young, inconsistent and frustrating bunch. Turnovers are probably going to be a concern. We are
going to have to have guys who take care of the ball and have good court awareness. The guys that
do that and play some defense will be playing late February.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Indeed. Marshall recruits with a promise that everybody gets a chance to prove their effectiveness or lack thereof. I would expect massive lineup shuffling from game to game until December.


T


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[SB Shock]

First, a nine man rotation is a faulty assumption until at least February and probably not even then.

I might agree with you early on that he might have expanded rotations. But I think he will shorten rotation quickly once he finds who he trusts.

Ken Pomeroy has looked at rotations in college basketball. Although there are outliers, the rotations sizes are 8 or 9. Historically Marshall rotation are 9 to slightly 10ish. So Marshall already has an expanded rotation when compared to the rest of NCAA.

I don’t see that changing. I think he will have his normal rotations of 9-10 players, and u will either practice your way into them or u won’t.

[Slykryck]

I do wonder instead of a 3-man rotation at the 5, we may see all four get minutes simply due to inexperience and needing all 20 fouls.

[Bluzrover]

Well, based on 3G's comments to Taylor after the scrimmage it would appear Poor Bear is Gregg's new Morris Project. So I don't see him getting a whole lot of court time until he proves he's mature enough to do the right things off of the court. And that probably includes his tweets. His, while entertaining, are not the inspirational tweets we see coming from just about every other Shocker who has a Twitter account. You'd think people would learn from other people's mistakes, but you'd be wrong in thinking so. We all gotta learn for ourselves.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I had to vote for 11 players in the poll (with Buckets). Now way could I keep it at 9. Funny how people are so confident about Torres and not Stevenson. If Torres is ahead of Stevenson in the depth chart we have officially entered the Twilight Zone.


T


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[C0|dB|00ded]

Because Torres has the body of a baby. And this "3 star" you are referring to had offers from LSU, Utah, Washington and Washington State. I watched both players in summer scrimmages, and while I found Torres to be crafty and bold, he was physically overmatched in many situations. Stevenson was having a MUCH bigger impact on the game and getting to the basket and finishing in heavy traffic. Don't let Shocker Madness fool you, Stevenson has MANY more tools at his disposal than Torres.

Where I could be very wrong on Torres is in measuring the size of his heart. If he turns into Fred VanVleet once the bright lights come on, all bets are off. Early on I was Torres' biggest fan. I hopped off his bandwagon once I saw him in person. He's gonna need a huge heart to make up for his small frame.

Stevenson is no physical monster either by any stretch of the imagination but he's also not a midget. He has a nice thick frame with very long arms. Stevenson has the same body type as Ron Baker but not as tall.

EDIT: Also, Stevenson was playing PG in the scrimmage I witnessed and played it VERY well. His passing with respect to power and timing were superb. ES has mentioned that his ultimate goal is to get to the NBA and said he believes that HCGM can help him get there. He KNOWS he's not getting there as a SG. ES believes he will be our starting PG eventually. That seems only logical.


T


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[Shockadaisical]

Fair enough. I guess we will see how it all plays out soon. No disrespect to Stevenson, it sounds like you have had the benefit of watching him play in person. All I can see is that up to this point Torres has proven himself against the "next" level up in competition. As long as one or both of them proves to be a great Shocker, I think we would both be happy with that.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Indeed.


T


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[pinstripers]

If Torres or Stevenson can't play ahead of SHJ, then Jones has made HUGE improvement.

[Slykryck]

I would certainly expect Torres to be ahead of Stevenson on the depth chart. Torres is a first team JuCo All American, and while that’s not D1, I’m bettting he played against some higher level competition. As far as an actual depth chart, I don’t think Stevenson is expected to play PG so I don’t think you can complete compare them. And if Teddy is eligible this year, I gotta imagine Chance Moore and Dennis see more time then him at SG early on.

As as far as SHJ, I would also expect him to be starting at PG early on the season simply having experience in the system. But if his decision making doesn’t improve, he won’t hold onto that spot very long.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I'm not going to even recognize conversations where Stevenson is discussed as a shooting guard. He's too small. The only reason Frankamp was able to get a shot off in the AAC was because he has a very nifty collection of moves specifically designed to get him open - not to mention a very fast release.


T


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[Slykryck]

Until I see that he’s capable of playing point at any level, I won’t recognize any conversation that doesn’t refer to him as a SG.

[ShockerFever]

If Torres or Stevenson can't play ahead of SHJ, then Jones has made HUGE improvement.

Which he hasn't.

[ShockerFever]

As as far as SHJ, I would also expect him to be starting at PG early on the season simply having experience in the system. But if his decision making doesn’t improve, he won’t hold onto that spot very long.

He may have experience in the system but based on what I saw, he's still the same one-dimensional , shoot-first player as last year. I haven't seen Torres yet so I can't compare, but I gotta feel even a JUCO All-American first year would be preferred rather than what SHJ brings.

If SHJ is starting, then we're in trouble.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Buckets is a shoot first player except when he shoots he's usually at the rim and it usually goes in. Everybody in the building knows when SHJ is making his move and they know it way ahead of time.


T


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[Slykryck]

I’d be surprised if he could ever get away from being a shoot first PG. Its what comes natural to him and I gotta imagine that in a pinch, that’s what he’ll resort back to. I just think he gets the early nod at point, even if it’s a game or too before Torres, or possibly even Burton, takes over.

[im4wsu]

SHJ was Second team Juco AA, so what, being first team Juco AA puts one, maybe two or three guards ahead of SHJ in all of D-1 Juco? Funny how a label elevates one but is disregarded in the other. For the record, I've never seen Torres play, but am absolutely not enamored with SHJ, other than he's from my high school alma mater.