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**Stickboy46** · July 16, 2018, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by ARShocker View Post

What's the common denominator here? There is where you will find your problem.

I’ve always like your posts and insight but either say what you are trying to hint at or don’t say anything.

To be direct in your comment. The common denominator is that Marshall is a tough coach. He’s not for soft players/coaches. They end up leaving to not so great results (so far). The players (Van Vleet, Baker, Shamet, Early to an extent) that stay succeed. The coach’s that stayed for a decent amount of time have succeeded. That’s the common denominator here. I honestly can’t remember a player or coach that bolted early (except to the NBA) from Marshall’s tenure here that went on to do great things ....

**Rocky Mountain Shock** · July 16, 2018, 04:34 PM

The only problem here is believing there's only one style of coaching that is best.

Not everyone coaches like Bob Knight. Not everyone coaches like Jay Wright either. Yet one can be successful using either style.

The key is finding players and assistants who are a good fit for a head coach's style. It sounds like we've neglected to do that the past few years, but we are quickly resolving that issue.

**Aargh** · July 16, 2018, 04:45 PM

The common denominator I saw last year was that our perimeter players couldn't (or wouldn't, but surely didn't) penetrate much and get to the rim for fouls or drop-off passes to post players. Another common denominator I saw last year was that our perimeter players couldn't (or wouldn't, but surely didn't ) stop opposing perimeter players from driving on them or from hitting 3's at their best rate all season.

I suspect that was involved with some personnel issues, both on the staff and among the players. I expect our perimeter players this year will be substantially quicker than our perimeter players last year.

The way our perimeter defense worked last year (it was non-existent) may have led to some conversations that some players and assistant coaches may have found unpleasant.

**Kel Varnsen** · July 17, 2018, 09:32 AM

My opinion is that Marshall was with Heiar and Jans (as well as Forbes) for years and, as Chris Rock so eloquently states, "during the course of a relationship, a man becomes accustomed to a few things." The luxuries he had with Jans and Heiar on the bench were many, and those luxuries were not present with Lindsted and Jones. I think he has certainly grown, shall we say, impatient in many regards now that his assistants cannot perform the tasks as well as the old ones did. I cannot imagine that he was thrilled with the scouting and in-game input from these fellows.

**C0|dB|00ded** · July 17, 2018, 10:43 AM

Can you imagine an Heier/Jans scouting report versus a Lindsted/Jones?

Something like this probably.

vs.

T

...:cool:

**Shockm** · July 17, 2018, 11:09 AM

With all due respect, I'm not sure if you really know how the scouting report is developed. It is a Team Effort with Nick Jones doing full time work at finding video's on each opponent throughout the season. Devon Smith is involved too, along with one Asst. Coach responsible for the finalized product each game.

That is one reason why Chris Jans, during his last year here was so valuable. He couldn't coach individual players so he had a lot of time to put into watching video for tendencies and helping to develop scouting reports for each game. He knew teams inside and out because all he could really do was watch video, and WSU practices too and give GM his opinion on what needed to improve. The full time Asst. Coaches have responsibilities for extensive day to day recruiting , day to day practices, etc.

**bighouse** · July 17, 2018, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Shockm View Post

With all due respect, I'm not sure if you really know how the scouting report is developed. It is a Team Effort with Nick Jones doing full time work at finding video's on each opponent throughout the season. Devon Smith is involved too, along with one Asst. Coach responsible for the finalized product each game.

That is one reason why Chris Jans, during his last year here was so valuable. He couldn't coach individual players so he had a lot of time to put into watching video for tendencies and helping to develop scouting reports for each game. He knew teams inside and out because all he could really do was watch video, and WSU practices too and give GM his opinion on what needed to improve. The full time Asst. Coaches have responsibilities for extensive day to day recruiting , day to day practices, etc.

With all due respect, the proof is in the pudding. We went from statistically the best defense in the country to.....not so much. Talk about common denominators.

**Aargh** · July 17, 2018, 12:30 PM

What was sought with Jones was his familiarity with the AAC. What was found was why he was let go by UCF.

He got us contacts with a lot of highly regarded players out of Florida. Do we still have any potential recruits from Florida on our recruiting radar?

**C0|dB|00ded** · July 17, 2018, 12:33 PM

It's pretty simple really. If your team talent pool shrinks, you have critical tasks making their way down to less qualified people.

In the beginning I vehemently opposed any talk of our defensive woes being attributable to assistant coaching turnover. I believed that Gregg Marshall was the puppet master and to think that anybody else was contributing to his success was ludicrous. However, when framed around the theory that the puppet master is going to struggle no matter how talented he is if his puppets are raggedy and broken... I acquiesced.

It should be clear to all that a top 10 division one program is a monster with many heads and Gregg Marshall is a control freak. The Achilles heal of control freaks is their unwillingness to delegate. He must be able to delegate and he must be able to trust those he delegates to or the task gets snatched back. I wonder if Gregg would say that he worked harder last year than any other year at WSU he can remember. He simply lacked good help.

T

...:cool:

**ShockTalk** · July 17, 2018, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Shockm

That is not an opinion. It is speculation and you are welcome to do it.

My speculation is that GM was very unhappy, and went over the edge at the way we lost to Marshall in the NCAA Tourney. Then we lost our best recruit. The negativity was felt by the team who was disappointed too, coaches, and fans. If we had won that game, and maybe had a little or lot of success in the NCAA T, GM (the fans too) would have felt less much less disappointment and this off season negativity wouldn't have been so pronounced (likely very little negativity if we had Tourney success).

There would have been.a little turnover but Austin would still be here (maybe CJ too) and at least one of the Asst. Coaches wouldn't have left. Everyone would be less negative. We don't know whether the coaches were asked to leave (and I think it's wrong to speculate on that), but I feel confident that pressure went from the top down to change things. We don't really have any idea to all of the conversations that took place so any further speculation is not a good idea imo. The bottom line is that it is amazing how important tourney success and not ending the season on such a low note would have been.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Beating Marshall would have changed little. That game would not have been a cure, it was a symptom of what had gone on all year. There was always hope that as time went on during the season, things would change. The coaches would all get use to each other better, learn from each other, and the players with the coaches. They did not. Did you miss the late season "dress-downs" HCGM had with the staff during games?

Sometimes, things just don't fit together like everyone hopes. I believe Marshall had a special relationship with CJ, and to a lesser extent GH. Losing both was like a bridge falling down. I'm sure that with the number of seniors and other returning players, there was belief that the senior leadership and with the experience of the team, it would all work out. Early in the season, there were bumps, maybe more than some would have thought. It did not necessarily show up just in a loss, but more so the level of play and toughness. It didn't get better, it got worse.

Whatever it was, between coaches and/or between coaches and players, it never got resolved. Personally, I felt Lindsted's leaving had as much as anything to do with AR leaving. It probably wasn't the only thing, but it might have been final thing. He was the one who recruited AR and closed the deal.....as long as HCGM wanted him and he did.

**choida** · July 17, 2018, 07:14 PM

x.com

https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/1019051932516839424/photo/1

**shoxlax** · July 17, 2018, 11:29 PM

The fact he got exactly one like and one retweet from that pile of wisdom tells you all you need to know. He has lately been less about good intel and more about race baiting and bad humor.

**choida** · July 17, 2018, 11:36 PM

It's all in fun...I think it's just for humor

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