Samajae H-J

[Kel Varnsen]

Because it also gives us a reference point as the length of a basketball game. Per-40 stats give us a frame of reference to say "Oh yeah, 30 points is a lot." Whereas I have no frame of reference for a per-100 that shows a player scores 96 points per 100 minutes or something.

I know you said per-30 is more accurate, but I don't think that's true. The first four college basketball players I thought to look up from last year were Grayson Allen, Deandre Ayton, Trae Young, and Devonte Graham. All of them averaged more than 30 minutes a game. Graham had 17 games last year where he played all 40 minutes if you include their overtime game against Duke where he played all 45.

I'm sure you're not going to pick this hill to die on, but it's also just a very common stat. Most sites that track basketball stats allow you to see per-40 for college and per-48 for NBA.

Haha no, I'm not picking this hill to die on. I have just always found it weird. I suppose per-40 minute stats could be worthwhile for players like you mentioned, but for the vast majority of players, and especially in SHJ's case, they are not playing more than (or sometimes even close to) 30 minutes/game. And as I've mentioned, constant returns to scale are typically not enjoyed for players with so few minutes. SHJ averaged 11 MPG and 5.3 PPG in 24 games last season. Does that mean he will start lighting it up for 16 PPG as a starter (better than FVV and RB ever had)? Heck no. I think you want your reserves to give you a lot and that there's a good number of minutes based on each player, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will have the same averages over a longer span of time.

I think the reason that Per-100 possession stats are used in the NBA is that A)It's a fairly good approximation of the number of possessions in a game, and B)It's pace-adjusted. The per minute stats are not pace-adjusted.

[jdshock]

Haha no, I'm not picking this hill to die on. I have just always found it weird. I suppose per-40 minute stats could be worthwhile for players like you mentioned, but for the vast majority of players, and especially in SHJ's case, they are not playing more than (or sometimes even close to) 30 minutes/game. And as I've mentioned, constant returns to scale are typically not enjoyed for players with so few minutes. SHJ averaged 11 MPG and 5.3 PPG in 24 games last season. Does that mean he will start lighting it up for 16 PPG as a starter (better than FVV and RB ever had)? Heck no. I think you want your reserves to give you a lot and that there's a good number of minutes based on each player, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will have the same averages over a longer span of time.

I think the reason that Per-100 possession stats are used in the NBA is that A)It's a fairly good approximation of the number of possessions in a game, and B)It's pace-adjusted. The per minute stats are not pace-adjusted.

Yeah, I certainly think the returns to scale is the biggest issue for guys who play limited minutes. I remember Nick Wiggins had crazy per-40 stats for a while his junior year. Obviously, if we ran him out there for a whole game, teams would learn to guard him, though. These types of stats are always going to be most helpful for guys who play a certain minimum number of minutes. For example, in the NBA, Kevin Durant was sixth in points per game, but when you adjust for per-48, he jumps up to third because he was sitting a significant portion of most games due to his team's success.

You're right that per-100 is helpful in the NBA as a good approximation of the number of possessions in a game, but you don't get the same benefit in college. In an NBA game, I at least have a rough idea of how much a player is going to score if I see their per-100 possessions stats. In a college game, I've got to remember how many possessions I'm likely to see and then try to do some math.

But pace-adjusted stats are a different thing all-together. I absolutely agree that per-40 is likely to have little predictive power when you're talking about someone who averaged under 10 minutes a game. All I'm saying is that if you ever take over one of these stat sites, don't wholesale delete the per-40 stat columns because I think they can be helpful in some instances.

[im4wsu]

Well then why don't we use per 100 minutes? It would be just as easy to read and compare.

Could use 1 thousand or ten thousand. The statistic keepers for college basketball (NCAA, sports-reference, etc.) use 40, so I used 40. If you want to use 1,000, you can multiply the per 40 numbers by 2.5.

[Aargh]

Check your decimal placement.

[ShockTalk]

Ouch

[1979Shocker]

I think im4wsu meant 100 rather than 1,000. Otherwise, yes, check the decimal.

[Shockm]

Who really cares what data is used? The fact is that each of these data snapshots are just a piece to the puzzle and the answer is that we really don't know what will happen in the future. Where SHJ is concerned, for me, is that the coaches still are saying that they have faith that he may produce. The 2018-19 player that we have the most data on is Markis (from two years ago he showed that he could score at 10 and rebound at 7 during an entire year of basketball) and there are still people on here who don't believe that he will be a leader.

There is no one on this team who has showed that he can succeed against Division 1 players for the entire year except for McDuffie. Secondly, Teddy Allen at West Virginia had snapshots against Division 1 big 12 players and scored 7 and grabbed 2 rebounds. Third, SHJ showed last year for brief snapshots that he could be successful against low Division 1 and Juco players the two years before (enough to be an All American). The rest of our team has been successful as 3 STAR players against either Juco players (one All American), Prep players, and High School players but none of these have played against Division 1 players in a sanctioned event. This is the offseason it is difficult to wait on the upcoming season for more information but we will have to patiently wait.

[choida]

It really is only June huh

[60Shock]

And the summer heat is now, Choida, just getting started.

[WstateU]

[Shockm]

Here is another article on SHJ's changed outlook. I would consider myself positive but yet dubious (one who has questions to be answered) or skeptical, but not a doubter. For you who are negative doubters or others like who are positive and dubious, here is some information that may help. With his athletic ability, he could be really good.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...213113104.html

[choida]

Unless we are playing a loaded cupcake schedule... I'll believe it when I see it.

[pinstripers]

Sigh....................................I agree

[WstateU]

Unless we are playing a loaded cupcake schedule... I'll believe it when I see it.

[1972Shocker]

I hope things work out well for Samajae. For his benefit and the team's benefit. Time will tell.

[WSUwatcher]

Absolutely, 1972 -- he strikes me as the kind of guy it's easy to root for. And there's no question WSU could use good PG minutes.

[Shockm]

I hope things work out well for Samajae. For his benefit and the team's benefit. Time will tell.

I agree. I've seen the lights come on for too many athletes to be a doubter but he still needs to be the one that answers questions. It's his elite athletic ability that helps me hold out hope and I'm sure that the coaching staff sees it that way too.

[1972Shocker]

If nothing else he certainly seems determinedd to overcome his issues and shortcomings from last year. While probably a necessary ingredient for a break out season for Samajae it doesn't guarantee anything but I'm rooting for him to be successful. We probably won't find out for sure until he is playing under the lights.