Hutch News columnist thinks it's time . . .

[GarH]

Shouldn't have posted that. Now all I can think about is where to go in the morning for Heuvos Rancheros. Arizona/Sonoran style. New Mexico style or Oaxacan style?

[fastbow]

Answer any of these:

Why does WSU being in the same state make them a more desireable opponent in KU's eyes?
Why would KU see WSU as a more desireable opponent than any other mid-major out there?
Travel weariness may be a small factor, but why would KU benefit from playing a team that has a shorter distance to travel?
Why are you implying that playing Colorado State is a worse choice for KU than playing WSU?

Can we have a real discussion now?

Media coverage to expand the fanbase into the western part of the state, national media coverage (silly rivalries are the cheesy human-interest stories of sports media. ESPN would talk about it. All those sports entertainment shows need stories.)
Fanbase travel is minimized, bringing cash money to Lawrence, or allowing the Beakers a chance to throw some crazy three-day alumni association party in Wichita.
Playing at IBA or CKA allows KU to add a neutral/roadie to their resume against a good opponent in a nationally-renowned environment that could conceivably skew as much as 30% Beaker while at the same time minimizing their own travel fatigue.
Fosters goodwill in the state, especially in the largest community in the state where MANY donors and prospective students live.
KU and WSU get to print up limited-edition merch that will VANISH as it makes SERIOUS bank.

For question #2, see all the above answers.

Question #3 is also answered above.

CSU is a worse choice because it's a non-entity. All the above arguments? ZERO apply to CSU.

Now, take off your asshat, get that pool cue out from where the sun don't shine, and answer some questions yourself.

[wu_shizzle]

I'll take a shot.

Media coverage to expand the fanbase into the western part of the state,

There are plenty of KU fans in western kansas. I have family in Dodge City and they're all Jayhawkers. I tried finding it, but there is a PDF of alumni by county and KU is well represented in Western Kansas.

national media coverage (silly rivalries are the cheesy human-interest stories of sports media. ESPN would talk about it. All those sports entertainment shows need stories.)

I'll go with you on this one, because even though KU is an elite program, their media coverage on the east coast does not reflect it. And for us, all press is good press.

Fanbase travel is minimized, bringing cash money to Lawrence, or allowing the Beakers a chance to throw some crazy three-day alumni association party in Wichita.

Allen and Koch both sell out on a regular basis. Not a lot of upside there. The Sprint Center and Intrust Bank Arena would be sellouts but I would be interested to know what the net revenue would be once you factor in leasing the building for the night. That's where I see the potential for money on both sides.

Playing at IBA or CKA allows KU to add a neutral/roadie to their resume against a good opponent in a nationally-renowned environment that could conceivably skew as much as 30% Beaker while at the same time minimizing their own travel fatigue.

They have no reason to build their resume when they get 1 and 2 seeds every year.

Fosters goodwill in the state, especially in the largest community in the state where MANY donors and prospective students live.

It would be a lot of fun.

KU and WSU get to print up limited-edition merch that will VANISH as it makes SERIOUS bank.

Only for WSU, and only if we win. Which is a little sad, actually. I still remember the shirt that was printed when we were ranked 8th or 9th, Mark's last year before Vegas. Let's hope that none are still in existence today.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Jamar, by your logic, whenever KU is ranked #1 in the nation, they stand to gain nothing by playing anyone, even the #2 ranked team in the nation.

Postulating odd questions with debatable relevance to the issue at hand, then refusing to add any more to the discussion unless someone deign answer your question, does not a good discussion make.

Just accept the fact that someone may not have a good answer to your question simply because it's not a good question and move on.

rjl, I think you misunderstood what I've been trying to say. I definitely think KU has many things to gain from playing WSU. However, I think KU has many things to gain from playing many different teams. In some areas, WSU provides no unique advantage to KU. At that point, it is KU's choice who they want to play, and we shouldn't hold it against them. In other areas, WSU does indeed hold a unique advantage to KU. If KU refuses to play WSU, I'm all for holding those reasons against them. My intention in this thread was to expose some of the unfair criticisms that I've heard, as well as to educate myself on some of the reasons that have some backing.

Personally, I hate the fact that KU and KSU won't play WSU. I also hate to hear Shocker fans use poor logic when they complain about it. For those whose reasoning is sound (and there has been some in this thread), by all means, continue complaining. Hopefully sooner or later someone with the power to do something about it will finally hear us and take action.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Answer any of these:

Why does WSU being in the same state make them a more desireable opponent in KU's eyes?
Why would KU see WSU as a more desireable opponent than any other mid-major out there?
Travel weariness may be a small factor, but why would KU benefit from playing a team that has a shorter distance to travel?
Why are you implying that playing Colorado State is a worse choice for KU than playing WSU?

Can we have a real discussion now?

Media coverage to expand the fanbase into the western part of the state, national media coverage (silly rivalries are the cheesy human-interest stories of sports media. ESPN would talk about it. All those sports entertainment shows need stories.)
Fanbase travel is minimized, bringing cash money to Lawrence, or allowing the Beakers a chance to throw some crazy three-day alumni association party in Wichita.
Playing at IBA or CKA allows KU to add a neutral/roadie to their resume against a good opponent in a nationally-renowned environment that could conceivably skew as much as 30% Beaker while at the same time minimizing their own travel fatigue.
Fosters goodwill in the state, especially in the largest community in the state where MANY donors and prospective students live.
KU and WSU get to print up limited-edition merch that will VANISH as it makes SERIOUS bank.

For question #2, see all the above answers.

Question #3 is also answered above.

CSU is a worse choice because it's a non-entity. All the above arguments? ZERO apply to CSU.

Now, take off your asshat, get that pool cue out from where the sun don't shine, and answer some questions yourself.

I don't see any questions in your post to answer. However, I will say that you do make some good points. I especially like the idea of limited edition merchandise. I hadn't thought about that one.

See, that wasn't so hard!

[ISASO]

It's as simple as:

1. KU is afraid to because they very well might lose
2. K-State won't play because they want to impress the KU fans, to be the bullies friend, even if it is embarrassing. Imagine if K-State were to walk out from under KU's shadow, and then lose to WSU. Their fear is not losing to WSU, their fear is the ridicule they would get from KU fans.

[lostshocker]

I don't see any questions in your post to answer. However, I will say that you do make some good points. I especially like the idea of limited edition merchandise. I hadn't thought about that one.

See, that wasn't so hard!

the questions would be in other's posts.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

ok lostshocker, here goes...

Was Richmond travel weary a few years ago when they rode out of there with a win?

I never said road teams never win. I never said travel distance was a big factor. All I said was that playing a team closer to you that has a shorter traveling distance is NOT an advantage. ShockerFever loves to misrepresent what I say and then pretend to paraphrase my thoughts. The intent is to try and make it about me instead of about the discussion.

What do you want me to tell you? That a game vs. Wichita State hurts KU? That it hurts more than a Longwood? That it gives taxpayers of Kansas a chance to see a game that BOTH sides want to see but WSU is not up to the caliber? That KU has a chance to lose (like they did at home vs Oral Bob and Richmond)? That they would leave their "comfort" zone? That they are better than that? That they are better than everybody? That they should just move to the NBA?

I never said playing WSU hurts KU. I already addressed the taxpayers remark. I already said I think WSU would have a chance to win. The last few questions aren't really meant to be answered.

How about you start answering some questions now? You seriously think Colorado State is a better opponent than Wichita State is for KU?

I never said I thought Colorado State was a better opponent for KU. I don't. I simply asked for reasons why they weren't equal (in KU's eyes). Once again, Fever misrepresented what I said. Thankfully, a few others actually answered the question.

Why does KU play KSU?

They don't choose to play KSU anymore than they choose to play Baylor. We can speculate if they would play them if they were in separate conferences, but in reality, we can't know for sure.

New Mexico style or Oaxacan style?

I'm undecided. :D

[LoneStar48]

RoyalShock, your point would have held true this year, but not necessarily every year. There have been plenty of years when WSU wasn't strong in all those areas.

Also, I go back to a main question... Why is WSU uniquely qualified to help KU in this way? Aren't there many teams out there with talent, athleticism, and experience?

WSU is uniquely qualified to play KU; they are under no obligation to help KU. The point you miss, JH, is that college sports are for the fans when you boil it down to the purest reason to participate. In this case, the fans of one institution want the game, and indeed, some of the fans of the other institution would like to see them play as well. I have an extended family of KU alums from Wichita that would all like to see the Hawks play the Shocks. Since there were no undefeated teams this year, one loss for either team probably won't cost them the season, now would it?

The fans pay every single cent that goes to the programs; salaries, equipment, travel, lodging, tuition, books, recruiting, and everything else that the teams get. Why shouldn't the fans have the say in this matter?

[another shocker]

JH4P, perhaps you are confusing the Shockers of the last decade or so with the Shockers of the '90's.

[ShockerFever]

I misrepresent what you have to say? Well, then how come you don't defend yourself more instead of constantly demanding answers from others.

You're trying to look at things from KU's perspective. It's kinda creepy to wanna think like that, but even then, I still haven't seen any justifiable reasons to avoid a series.

You just keep coming up with reasons why Miami of Ohio is a better opponent for KU than a WSU.

You're also totally looking at this from the BCS/NCAA/$$$ perspective.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

You're trying to look at things from KU's perspective. It's kinda creepy to wanna think like that, but even then, I still haven't seen any justifiable reasons to avoid a series.

People have been criticizing KU's ongoing decision. How else can we analyze their decision other than by looking at things from their perspective?

Also, you once again mis-characterized my thoughts. I don't think there is any reason that fully justifies KU avoiding WSU. However, there are some arguments that have been thrown out as to why KU SHOULD play WSU, and while I agree with some, I disagree with some as well.

I just hate hearing bad arguments for a case that can be made with good ones. I may have shot down many arguments, but I have also agreed with some, and I have made it clear that I ultimately think a WSU vs KU game should happen.