One more home game!

[notquiteBWing]

After WAY to much bitching about Toure' in the media and especially on this board, Toure' was THE MAN today.


I love this kid. Polite, kind, good kid and tireless worker, even when things haven't gone his way.

Loved listening to him after the game. Great against Delaney, even though he had 30, he was a leader out there and made big plays late in the game.

15 points, 7 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals.


For all you haters out there, and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, take that.


:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

Still hatin' here.
I love Toure. great guy. calm and polite.
Today we would have lost without him. no doubt. Player of the game on D and O.
But, it's gonna take more than one game to convince me that he helps the team more than hurts it.

*IMO*

As unfair as it may initially seem, i think we would have won a few of the games we lost had he played within himself.
Everybody on this board blames something for our troubles...

And it may seem unfair to place it on one person. I know there are other factors to consider. but i watch all these games. I don't CHOOSE to see all the dumb crap Toure does. I JUST see it.
Whether its bonehead mistakes, horrendous shot selection, "i wanna be the hero" mentality, over penetration, dumba** shot fakes after he's already lost his dribble that just draw the defender closer... on a potential game-tying situation... (twice)

I might be the only person after today to say these things, but I know i'm not alone. There are more *hand to forehead slaps* when toure makes decisions than anyone else.

If he continues to play well, I will jump on board.
After a few more solid games, I will think of him positively this season.
Right now the negatives have accumulated too much for me to have a positive outlook on him.
Many of you want to think that the past few months have been an aberration, well I think today is an aberration.

[SHOXAAC]

After WAY to much bitching about Toure' in the media and especially on this board, Toure' was THE MAN today.


I love this kid. Polite, kind, good kid and tireless worker, even when things haven't gone his way.

Loved listening to him after the game. Great against Delaney, even though he had 30, he was a leader out there and made big plays late in the game.

15 points, 7 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals.


For all you haters out there, and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, take that.


:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

Still hatin' here.
I love Toure. great guy. calm and polite.
Today we would have lost without him. no doubt. Player of the game on D and O.
But, it's gonna take more than one game to convince me that he helps the team more than hurts it.

*IMO*

As unfair as it may initially seem, i think we would have won a few of the games we lost had he played within himself.
Everybody on this board blames something for our troubles...

And it may seem unfair to place it on one person. I know there are other factors to consider. but i watch all these games. I don't CHOOSE to see all the dumb crap Toure does. I JUST see it.
Whether its bonehead mistakes, horrendous shot selection, "i wanna be the hero" mentality, over penetration, dumba** shot fakes after he's already lost his dribble that just draw the defender closer... on a potential game-tying situation... (twice)

I might be the only person after today to say these things, but I know i'm not alone. There are more *hand to forehead slaps* when toure makes decisions than anyone else.

If he continues to play well, I will jump on board.
After a few more solid games, I will think of him positively this season.
Right now the negatives have accumulated too much for me to have a positive outlook on him.
Many of you want to think that the past few months have been an aberration, well I think today is an aberration.

I totally agree Wing...I'm not a Toure' hater...not a Kyles hater (many I'm sure will disagree). I just have a semi-understanding of expectations. Toure' for some reason for most of the year has looked scared. He has been overly inconsistent based on my, and about 99% of others who follow WSU, expectations. It is what it is. He played well today...TODAY, but to think he is all of a sudden the player we all expected him to be and into the future, is being naive. Let me see more than a 2 game trend.

[newshock1234]

I think the week away from basketball is exactly what Toure needed, he looked relaxed and was letting the game come to him.

[Ta Town Shocker]

Toure played great but when it counted the most, in OT, Garrett Stutz stepped up to the plate and won the game for us. I have read all over this board that he is inconsistent. Few teams have a guy who can guard him and if he gets position in the post he is unstoppable. The sad thing is that we rarely get to see him play unless JT is in foul trouble or he plays real well in his first couple of minutes. I think the best thing that happened to us in the MVC tourney in the first half against Bradley and in OT against VT was that JT had to sit because of fouls and we were forced to put Stutz in. Our offense is much better with Stutz on the court.

[60Shock]

Toure's positives far outwiegh his negatives. Where would we have been this year if he wasn't always defending against the opposing teams best offensive player. And some of these guys have been nothing less than terrific.

Another player who has come through in the stretch, whom many have constantly beat up on, is Hatch. All our players will make mistakes, even Ben, who is by the way is going to be an integral part of next year's team.

The team is on a roll and it matters not who carries it, just as long as several do.

[pinstripers]

I thought Blair was the player of the game.

[eeshocker]

Toure played great but when it counted the most, in OT, Garrett Stutz stepped up to the plate and won the game for us. I have read all over this board that he is inconsistent. Few teams have a guy who can guard him and if he gets position in the post he is unstoppable. The sad thing is that we rarely get to see him play unless JT is in foul trouble or he plays real well in his first couple of minutes. I think the best thing that happened to us in the MVC tourney in the first half against Bradley and in OT against VT was that JT had to sit because of fouls and we were forced to put Stutz in. Our offense is much better with Stutz on the court.

Stutz was being guarded by a 6-3 walkon. He better play great in that situation. To me, Stutz is more frustrating that Toure. Stutz needs to learn to finish when being guarded by the other teams center. He misses too many easy layups IMO. And he gets owned on defense if playing against a good post player. At least Toure contributes on the defensive end and for the most part does a good job distributing the ball (minus a couple bonehead plays here and there). I hope both of these guys will meet their full potential next season. If they do, we are in for an exciting season.

[eeshocker]

I thought Blair was the player of the game.

I thought Toure and Gabe were both deserving. Gabe made some big plays late in the game.

[Ta Town Shocker]

Toure played great but when it counted the most, in OT, Garrett Stutz stepped up to the plate and won the game for us. I have read all over this board that he is inconsistent. Few teams have a guy who can guard him and if he gets position in the post he is unstoppable. The sad thing is that we rarely get to see him play unless JT is in foul trouble or he plays real well in his first couple of minutes. I think the best thing that happened to us in the MVC tourney in the first half against Bradley and in OT against VT was that JT had to sit because of fouls and we were forced to put Stutz in. Our offense is much better with Stutz on the court.

Stutz was being guarded by a 6-3 walkon. He better play great in that situation. To me, Stutz is more frustrating that Toure. Stutz needs to learn to finish when being guarded by the other teams center. He misses too many easy layups IMO. And he gets owned on defense if playing against a good post player. At least Toure contributes on the defensive end and for the most part does a good job distributing the ball (minus a couple bonehead plays here and there). I hope both of these guys will meet their full potential next season. If they do, we are in for an exciting season.

I couldn't disagree more. I can't recall Stutz missing anymore easy shots than anyone else on the team this year. Durley missed an easy one late in regulation today. When Stutz gets minutes and plays well we win, period. I'm not sure why you and Coach Marshall haven't realized it yet. Next year he should get plenty of minutes though.

[eeshocker]

Toure played great but when it counted the most, in OT, Garrett Stutz stepped up to the plate and won the game for us. I have read all over this board that he is inconsistent. Few teams have a guy who can guard him and if he gets position in the post he is unstoppable. The sad thing is that we rarely get to see him play unless JT is in foul trouble or he plays real well in his first couple of minutes. I think the best thing that happened to us in the MVC tourney in the first half against Bradley and in OT against VT was that JT had to sit because of fouls and we were forced to put Stutz in. Our offense is much better with Stutz on the court.

Stutz was being guarded by a 6-3 walkon. He better play great in that situation. To me, Stutz is more frustrating that Toure. Stutz needs to learn to finish when being guarded by the other teams center. He misses too many easy layups IMO. And he gets owned on defense if playing against a good post player. At least Toure contributes on the defensive end and for the most part does a good job distributing the ball (minus a couple bonehead plays here and there). I hope both of these guys will meet their full potential next season. If they do, we are in for an exciting season.

I couldn't disagree more. I can't recall Stutz missing anymore easy shots than anyone else on the team this year. Durley missed an easy one late in regulation today. When Stutz gets minutes and plays well we win, period. I'm not sure why you and Coach Marshall haven't realized it yet. Next year he should get plenty of minutes though.

Just my opinion. I love Stutz, don't get me wrong. I just think Toure can still contribute if he isn't scoring. Stutz is a liability on defense if he is not scoring. He could be very good IMO, if he learns to leave his feet occasionally. Too often he just stands under the basket while a smaller opponent shoots right over him. Toure usually guards the best player on the other team and does a good job. Again though, I am not saying I don't like Stutz or that I think Stutz shouldn't get more playing time. I think the only way he is going to improve is to get more time. I think you are mistaking my comments as hating on Stutz and that is not true.

[Ta Town Shocker]

Toure played great but when it counted the most, in OT, Garrett Stutz stepped up to the plate and won the game for us. I have read all over this board that he is inconsistent. Few teams have a guy who can guard him and if he gets position in the post he is unstoppable. The sad thing is that we rarely get to see him play unless JT is in foul trouble or he plays real well in his first couple of minutes. I think the best thing that happened to us in the MVC tourney in the first half against Bradley and in OT against VT was that JT had to sit because of fouls and we were forced to put Stutz in. Our offense is much better with Stutz on the court.

Stutz was being guarded by a 6-3 walkon. He better play great in that situation. To me, Stutz is more frustrating that Toure. Stutz needs to learn to finish when being guarded by the other teams center. He misses too many easy layups IMO. And he gets owned on defense if playing against a good post player. At least Toure contributes on the defensive end and for the most part does a good job distributing the ball (minus a couple bonehead plays here and there). I hope both of these guys will meet their full potential next season. If they do, we are in for an exciting season.

I couldn't disagree more. I can't recall Stutz missing anymore easy shots than anyone else on the team this year. Durley missed an easy one late in regulation today. When Stutz gets minutes and plays well we win, period. I'm not sure why you and Coach Marshall haven't realized it yet. Next year he should get plenty of minutes though.

Just my opinion. I love Stutz, don't get me wrong. I just think Toure can still contribute if he isn't scoring. Stutz is a liability on defense if he is not scoring. He could be very good IMO, if he learns to leave his feet occasionally. Too often he just stands under the basket while a smaller opponent shoots right over him. Toure usually guards the best player on the other team and does a good job. Again though, I am not saying I don't like Stutz or that I think Stutz shouldn't get more playing time. I think the only way he is going to improve is to get more time. I think you are mistaking my comments as hating on Stutz and that is not true.

I definitely understand what you are saying about Stutz playing defense. He still looks a bit awkward at times playing defense and if any player on the opposing team jumps into him the officials always call the foul on Stutz. He definitely makes bad decisions at times, a good example would be late in OT today he threw the ball away. All that being said I think that our offense can get very stagnant without him and that his strengths outweigh his weaknesses. He also passes the ball well out of the high low sets with the other bigs when he stands just above the free throw line. It seems that in some games the coach doesn't give him a chance to play enough minutes and it hurts us on offense. If he comes in and makes a couple of bad plays the coach benches him and we don't see him again, probably because we have 3 other big men on the team who happen to be seniors.

[SHOXAAC]

Toure played great but when it counted the most, in OT, Garrett Stutz stepped up to the plate and won the game for us. I have read all over this board that he is inconsistent. Few teams have a guy who can guard him and if he gets position in the post he is unstoppable. The sad thing is that we rarely get to see him play unless JT is in foul trouble or he plays real well in his first couple of minutes. I think the best thing that happened to us in the MVC tourney in the first half against Bradley and in OT against VT was that JT had to sit because of fouls and we were forced to put Stutz in. Our offense is much better with Stutz on the court.

Stutz was being guarded by a 6-3 walkon. He better play great in that situation. To me, Stutz is more frustrating that Toure. Stutz needs to learn to finish when being guarded by the other teams center. He misses too many easy layups IMO. And he gets owned on defense if playing against a good post player. At least Toure contributes on the defensive end and for the most part does a good job distributing the ball (minus a couple bonehead plays here and there). I hope both of these guys will meet their full potential next season. If they do, we are in for an exciting season.

I couldn't disagree more. I can't recall Stutz missing anymore easy shots than anyone else on the team this year. Durley missed an easy one late in regulation today. When Stutz gets minutes and plays well we win, period. I'm not sure why you and Coach Marshall haven't realized it yet. Next year he should get plenty of minutes though.

Just my opinion. I love Stutz, don't get me wrong. I just think Toure can still contribute if he isn't scoring. Stutz is a liability on defense if he is not scoring. He could be very good IMO, if he learns to leave his feet occasionally. Too often he just stands under the basket while a smaller opponent shoots right over him. Toure usually guards the best player on the other team and does a good job. Again though, I am not saying I don't like Stutz or that I think Stutz shouldn't get more playing time. I think the only way he is going to improve is to get more time. I think you are mistaking my comments as hating on Stutz and that is not true.

I definitely understand what you are saying about Stutz playing defense. He still looks a bit awkward at times playing defense and if any player on the opposing team jumps into him the officials always call the foul on Stutz. He definitely makes bad decisions at times, a good example would be late in OT today he threw the ball away. All that being said I think that our offense can get very stagnant without him and that his strengths outweigh his weaknesses. He also passes the ball well out of the high low sets with the other bigs when he stands just above the free throw line. It seems that in some games the coach doesn't give him a chance to play enough minutes and it hurts us on offense. If he comes in and makes a couple of bad plays the coach benches him and we don't see him again, probably because we have 3 other big men on the team who happen to be seniors.

And who matchup better. We all have to understand Stutz is not going to improve his foot speed or quickness...PERIOD. He is a nice option when he faces off with a similar type of big man. Unfortunately that equates to about half of the games. It won't change that drastically next year. He will never be a typical 7-foot shot blocker because he just doesn't possess that athleticism. Gregg will have to grin and bear it in some situations because of the experience factor Stutz brings.

[ShockRef]

After WAY to much bitching about Toure' in the media and especially on this board, Toure' was THE MAN today.


I love this kid. Polite, kind, good kid and tireless worker, even when things haven't gone his way.

Loved listening to him after the game. Great against Delaney, even though he had 30, he was a leader out there and made big plays late in the game.

15 points, 7 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals.


For all you haters out there, and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, take that.


:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

Doc,

Not a "hater" I just know when a player isn't there.

If you're arguing that point, you haven't been paying attention (I know better).

Toure should have been pulled back until he got things straightened out.

Did he look better today?

After the first two minutes - no.

He was burned on a back door and committed a silly T/O.

We know how the story ended as he turned it around and played well.

But admit it - when he took the first couple of treys' you were holding your breath.

As was everyone else on here. 8)

[ShockerFever]

I'm not about to make this a sour discussion after a big win today. One game does not a season make however. You could argue if it wasn't for some questionable plays in some key regular season games this year we would be dancing instead of NITing.

Now, I'll give it up for the kid that he had a good game today, but I'm not gonna take back what I said at the times I said them. A big pressure-packed home game is now back on tap this week. We'll see.

[ShockerFever]

Also, I vaguely was able to catch the ending but was it Toure that nearly fouled a guy 50 feet from the basket with under 2 seconds remaining?

That was another one of those crunch time meltdowns that was barely averted.

Again, a great game for him, but let's not forget there were about 30 previous games played before today.