Gonzaga and Butler

[Ta town]

Good point. Illinois vs. Michigan State last night. One is guaranteed a loss and neither should be invited. Whoever loses should definately be out.

Instead what happens is the one that wins is definately in. What? Funny how that works.

That is a conference matchup, two different things.

Now take that winner and have them play somebody on the bubble from another conference. Now you got bracket busters.

I'm all for playing the best competition. I just think Bracket Busters isn't the way to go about it.

Somebody list a team from this year that went from on the bubble to in the tournament due to braketbusters. I could be wrong but GMU and ODU were already in. Maybe you could say the winner of the USU/St.Marys sealed the deal.

[ShockerFever]

It's not the BB games. It could just as well be most seasons against a better than average OC team.

A high percentage of the time (viturally every time this year), we simply do not win.

The BB game this year was crucial. We needed a win against a good team at this point in the season to improve our resume. Unfortunately, we were not good enough to get that win and have to suffer the consequence.

The only answer to this predictament is - We need to get better.

We need better players. We need to play more and better teams early in the season so our players gain game experience and not just running up points against weak teams whose RPI's deflate the value of our already weak conference schedule.

The BB is not the problem. We are.

I do think it is harder to get better players when your big event of the year is with a bunch of schools who can't get TV exposure on their own and who can't get an at large bid on their own.

There were 114 teams in BB this year. Only about a dozen games involved top 100 rpi teams, most of these teams are ones you would consider a bad loss. Some of them had rpis in the 300s.

9 years in BB has been long enough to see if this experiment has helped the Valley or hurt it. After 4 straight years of being a one bid conference it is hard to see where it has helped. From 1994 until 2007 we were a multiple bid conference all but 2 years. Since 2007 we have been nothing but a one bid conference. It does not appear that being in BB has helped the Valley.

Here we freaking go again.. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x

[ShockerFever]

READ WHAT I WROTE YOU CLOWNS. I SPECIFICALLY SAID WSU DID IT TO THEMESELVES NOT BB.

HOWEVER BB DOES NOTHING EXCEPT PROVIDE A FEW TEAMS WITH SOMETHING TO LOSE THAT CHANCE.

Sorry it took me so long to respond. I just got back from clown practice and I had to polish my big red nose, because I got lipstick on it. You must have two personalities, because out of one side of your mouth (probably lipstickless), you clearly state (I know this because its in ALL CAPS) WSU DID IT TO THEMSELVES NOT BB. Then, and here is the funny part (becasue we clowns love to laugh you know), you print the word HOWEVER, which ultimately means forget all I said prior to that.

You lose or gain a chance at winning a basketball game regardless if it is played on December 14 or February 18, regardless of if it is called BB or just an Opportunity Game. That's it for me. These clown shoes are killing my bunyons.

replace however with although

WSU did it to themselves although bb provides a platform for teams to trip up late, often too late in the season.

It also provides a platform for teams to pad their resume. If we win Friday night, we may not even be in the Last 4 our category today. Utah State padded their resume and pretty much solidified themselves a bid.

If we can't beat VCU at home, we don't DESERVE an at-large. I don't care what the freaking time of year it is. Utah State, VCU, George Mason, etc. don't seem to be having problems playing it this late in the season.

This reasoning is totally pussified.

[ShockerFever]

Nothing wrong with WSU's schedule this year minus the Bracket Busters.

Really? You don't think there was anything wrong with the SWACfest? :roll:

I could be missing something but which BB team went from on the cusp to in this weekend?

WSU could have IF they had won. MSU could have IF they had won. GMU just went to essential lock status, same with Utah State.

2nd best team we've played at home this year = opportunity.

Next year we get Utah State at home and VCU on the road. That is a major schedule upgrade. Anybody actually complaining about that lineup compared to what we have been used to the past few years is a major moron.

[ShockerFever]

I simply think BB does nothing or hurts most of the time. Usually little to gain and lots to lose for some.

Let me put it this way. I wish all the bubble BCS teams would get toghether and eliminate themselves with 2 weeks to go in the season.

God, this reasoning is so wrong. Are you related to shox1989?

George Mason's Final Four run would not have happened without the Bracketbuster, as one example.

GMU vs. WSU in 2006. Was that an elimination game?
SIU vs. Butler in 2007. Elimination game?
Drake vs. Butler in 2008. Elimination game?
Assuming St. Mary's doesn't pee down its legs the rest of the way, they didn't eliminate themselves either. If they get left out, it is because of their loss to 300 RPI San Diego earlier in the week.

I love how you call all of the games elimination games when that has not been the case. The sooner you realize each individual team is judged by its overall body of work, or lack thereof, and not on the stupid bracketbuster, the more intelligent you will look.

[eeshocker]

I simply think BB does nothing or hurts most of the time. Usually little to gain and lots to lose for some.

Let me put it this way. I wish all the bubble BCS teams would get toghether and eliminate themselves with 2 weeks to go in the season.

God, this reasoning is so wrong. Are you related to shox1989?

George Mason's Final Four run would not have happened without the Bracketbuster, as one example.

GMU vs. WSU in 2006. Was that an elimination game?
SIU vs. Butler in 2007. Elimination game?
Drake vs. Butler in 2008. Elimination game?
Assuming St. Mary's doesn't pee down its legs the rest of the way, they didn't eliminate themselves either. If they get left out, it is because of their loss to 300 RPI San Diego earlier in the week.

I love how you call all of the games elimination games when that has not been the case. The sooner you realize each individual team is judged by its overall body of work, or lack thereof, and not on the stupid bracketbuster, the more intelligent you will look.

I agree. At this point in the season, every game is essentially a elemination game for mid majors on the verge of getting in, BB or not. For that matter, the many of the middle of the pack BCS teams are playing for their NCAA lives too. All games this time of year matter whether they are OOC or not.

Now I am not a BCS lover, in fact I can't stand the BCS, but the reason the BCS teams don't need to play anyone outside of conference is because they get good competition in conference. This is the opposite for mid majors. Typically, a good mid major conference has 1 really good team and 2 or 3 good teams and the rest of the league will be a drag on the RPI and SOS. Mid majors have to play better OOC schedules to beef up their resume. BCS teams get that boost in conference. BB gives a dozen or so teams that are in the at large discussion a chance to prove they belong. And as fever pointed out, losing a BB doesn't always mean you won't get in.

[Ta town]

[quote="ShockerFever"]

I simply think BB does nothing or hurts most of the time. Usually little to gain and lots to lose for some.

Let me put it this way. I wish all the bubble BCS teams would get toghether and eliminate themselves with 2 weeks to go in the season.[/


I love how you call all of the games elimination games when that has not been the case. The sooner you realize each individual team is judged by its overall body of work, or lack thereof, and not on the stupid bracketbuster, the more intelligent you will look.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/02/16/2275188/ncaa-committee-has-tough-calls.html

I think this article kind of goes against what you are saying about how they view the season.

I do agree with you that if WSU would have just won. I just think it is throwing a difficult hurdle in late that can trip teams up and are hard to overcome. I know you believe end of season doesn't matter and I look foolish.

I appreciate you sees things different and sorry my view seems to make you angry. I hope you can get over that.

[1972Shocker]

From the article Ta Town linked:

Smith offered a simple solution to all three: "You win. I think at the end of the day, winning is a very important criteria."

The problem has not been the Bracket Busters per se, but the performance of the Shockers in BB games.

OTOH, the Shocks are 6-0 in return games so that has been beneficial.

Going to be tough to keep that going with two return games next year -- Utah State at home and VCU on the road. But I like having the opportunity.

I have no problem getting out of Bracket Busters IF we replace those games with comparable or better matchups.

However, whether these games are part of BB or not, it is how we perform in such games that will determine whether they are good for us or not.

[ShockerFever]

From the article Ta Town linked:

Smith offered a simple solution to all three: "You win. I think at the end of the day, winning is a very important criteria."

The problem has not been the Bracket Busters per se, but the performance of the Shockers in BB games.

OTOH, the Shocks are 6-0 in return games so that has been beneficial.

Going to be tough to keep that going with two return games next year -- Utah State at home and VCU on the road. But I like having the opportunity.

I have no problem getting out of Bracket Busters IF we replace those games with comparable or better matchups.

However, whether these games are part of BB or not, it is how we perform in such games that will determine whether they are good for us or not.

Bingo. :good:

[SHOXAAC]

[quote="Ta town"]

I simply think BB does nothing or hurts most of the time. Usually little to gain and lots to lose for some.

Let me put it this way. I wish all the bubble BCS teams would get toghether and eliminate themselves with 2 weeks to go in the season.[/


I love how you call all of the games elimination games when that has not been the case. The sooner you realize each individual team is judged by its overall body of work, or lack thereof, and not on the stupid bracketbuster, the more intelligent you will look.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/02/16/2275188/ncaa-committee-has-tough-calls.html

I think this article kind of goes against what you are saying about how they view the season.

I do agree with you that if WSU would have just won. I just think it is throwing a difficult hurdle in late that can trip teams up and are hard to overcome. I know you believe end of season doesn't matter and I look foolish.

I appreciate you sees things different and sorry my view seems to make you angry. I hope you can get over that.

OK, I've had my fun with your clown reference. I read the article, which I thought gave us nothing we didn't already know. Gene Smith said wins matter more than conference affiliation. I'm sure he was referring to quality wins. And although the MVC as a whole participates in BB, the individual games you draw is what has to be focused on. Smith also said winning is a very important criteria. Again, I'm sure he is referring to quality wins, which because of BB, WSU was in a position to deliver, but once again failed when the lights shine the brightest. Unfortunatley WSU, on their own, haven't scheduled to the degree needed to get serious consideration from the committee when on the bubble. The Alabama A&M's just don't sail the ship when it comes to dancing. Thank goodness for BB to get us in the conversation...still.

[shocker3]

I have never like the Bracket Busters. I thought it was a bad idea when it was created and my opinion hasn't changed after 9 years. Over the years I have referred to it as the future 1-aa event.

It is really not a good time to be posting negative things about it after the Valley teams did so bad this year. It would be easy to assume that it is not liked because we did so bad. That has nothing to do with it for me.

In the early days of this event there was a lot of discussion about the ncaa dividing division 1 basketball into 2 separate divisions like football.

It seemed to me that the last thing we should do is associate ourselves with the teams that would be on the wrong side of that cut.

I think that had a lot do with the A-10, MWC and C-USA not getting involved with this event (I think a few C-USA teams did participate at the very beginning but quickly dropped out).

While the Valley was on the same level as those 3 conferences, and was an annual multiple bid conference, the Valley did NOT enjoy the same national TV exposure. So I fully understand Elgin trying to do something to get more national TV for the Valley.

But after the Valley signed the contract with CBS and the Valley improved the espn exposure there was absolutely no need for the Valley to remain in this event.

At the beginning of the BB, the top conferences involved in it and the ones that got the most TV games were the Valley, the WAC and the MAC.

It is interesting that after 9 years, all three of those conferences have fallen. I believe both the MAC and WAC got only one BB TV game this year and the Valley 3 games. Also all 3 of these conferences have become cemented as one bid conferences.

Meanwhile the 3 conferences that decided 9 years ago to stay out of the Bracket Busters have all done very well. They remain multiple bid conferences and have been preceived as being a level above the Valley.

I don't know how much, if any, of our drop has been due to the Bracket Busters, but the reality is we have dropped and the non-participants have not.

At a minimum, the Bracket Busters just hasn't helped the Valley. And until this year the Valley totally owned this event. So if it was going to help anyone it should have helped the Valley.

In my opinion, WSU really needs to improve the non-con schedule. I think we should drop one of our 4 guarantee games and drop our bracket busters games and try to replace them with 3 quality opponents to our schedule.

The best thing that the Bracket Buster has done for us is give us some decent opponents, but I do believe that WSU is capable of adding those type of teams to our schedule without this event.

And hopefully at least one of those games would be against a BCS team. Because unfortunately in todays world wins against BCS teams count for more than wins against non-BCS teams.

[ShockTalk]

I have never like the Bracket Busters. I thought it was a bad idea when it was created and my opinion hasn't changed after 9 years. Over the years I have referred to it as the future 1-aa event.

It is really not a good time to be posting negative things about it after the Valley teams did so bad this year. It would be easy to assume that it is not liked because we did so bad. That has nothing to do with it for me.

In the early days of this event there was a lot of discussion about the ncaa dividing division 1 basketball into 2 separate divisions like football.

It seemed to me that the last thing we should do is associate ourselves with the teams that would be on the wrong side of that cut.

I think that had a lot do with the A-10, MWC and C-USA not getting involved with this event (I think a few C-USA teams did participate at the very beginning but quickly dropped out).

While the Valley was on the same level as those 3 conferences, and was an annual multiple bid conference, the Valley did NOT enjoy the same national TV exposure. So I fully understand Elgin trying to do something to get more national TV for the Valley.

But after the Valley signed the contract with CBS and the Valley improved the espn exposure there was absolutely no need for the Valley to remain in this event.

At the beginning of the BB, the top conferences involved in it and the ones that got the most TV games were the Valley, the WAC and the MAC.

It is interesting that after 9 years, all three of those conferences have fallen. I believe both the MAC and WAC got only one BB TV game this year and the Valley 3 games. Also all 3 of these conferences have become cemented as one bid conferences.

Meanwhile the 3 conferences that decided 9 years ago to stay out of the Bracket Busters have all done very well. They remain multiple bid conferences and have been preceived as being a level above the Valley.

I don't know how much, if any, of our drop has been due to the Bracket Busters, but the reality is we have dropped and the non-participants have not.

At a minimum, the Bracket Busters just hasn't helped the Valley. And until this year the Valley totally owned this event. So if it was going to help anyone it should have helped the Valley.

In my opinion, WSU really needs to improve the non-con schedule. I think we should drop one of our 4 guarantee games and drop our bracket busters games and try to replace them with 3 quality opponents to our schedule.

The best thing that the Bracket Buster has done for us is give us some decent opponents, but I do believe that WSU is capable of adding those type of teams to our schedule without this event.

And hopefully at least one of those games would be against a BCS team. Because unfortunately in todays world wins against BCS teams count for more than wins against non-BCS teams.

:good: :good:

Add the perception of the Valley vs Atl-10, MWC, and C-USA with the media and the following perception of the Valley with recruits. Don't kid yourselves, our former piers are using that against Valley teams in recruiting. "We're now considered a "near Major or Quasi Major" while the Valley is just another mid major and not the best of those anymore either."