Koch Arena - great, but

[SHOXAAC]

Wow with this much sunshine being pumped I think I will go slash my wrists. I say we get rid of the whole group from the president on down and start fresh. I'm sure we have alot of qualified administrators, coaches and athletes that will step up and rescue this foundering ship and set it right.

Assure the blade is sharp. Your other point is certainly doable.

[ShockBand]

Agreed. Good doesn't necessarily mean NCAA bound. I do think the reason the Shocks have fallen short of that perceived potential has had to do with the intangibles of "basketball IQ" and that can be very hard to gauge in preseason.

[moshock]

That was my first game at Koch in a year. I'm used to the the quietness of JQH. THAT WAS AN AWESOME CROWD. I drove back to Sgf last nite after hitting Nuway and my ears were ringing the entire time. I don't have to worry about talking today because I'm so hoarse. The Shocker fans did their part and we should have came away with a victory.

The noise level was definitly in the ballpark with the FSU game. WOW.

That possibly eliminated our at large hopes but if we can't win the tournament at STL, we don't deserve to go any way.

Shocker Fans > MSU Fans (no comparison) :yes:

Go Shox !!!

:wsu_posters:

[60Shock]

Depends on how you look at it.

Compared with WSU teams of the last 20 years, - A very good team.

Compared with national teams with RPI's of 100-150 - A good team.

Compared with teams with RPI's of 50-100 - An average to good team. just as likely to lose at home while winning on the road.

Compared with teams with RPI's below 50 - A so-so team just as likely to lose at home as well as on the road.

[SHOXAAC]

Depends on how you look at it.

Compared with WSU teams of the last 20 years, - A very good team.

Compared with national teams with RPI's of 100-150 - A good team.

Compared with teams with RPI's of 50-100 - An average to good team. just as likely to lose at home while winning on the road.

Compared with teams with RPI's below 50 - A so-so team just as likely to lose at home as well as on the road.

Well put.

[shoxlax]

Depends on how you look at it.

Compared with WSU teams of the last 20 years, - A very good team.

Compared with national teams with RPI's of 100-150 - A good team.

Compared with teams with RPI's of 50-100 - An average to good team. just as likely to lose at home while winning on the road.

Compared with teams with RPI's below 50 - A so-so team just as likely to lose at home as well as on the road.

Good perspective. Seriously.

[ShockTherapy]

That was my first game at Koch in a year. I'm used to the the quietness of JQH. THAT WAS AN AWESOME CROWD. I drove back to Sgf last nite after hitting Nuway and my ears were ringing the entire time. I don't have to worry about talking today because I'm so hoarse. The Shocker fans did their part and we should have came away with a victory.

The noise level was definitly in the ballpark with the FSU game. WOW.

That possibly eliminated our at large hopes but if we can't win the tournament at STL, we don't deserve to go any way.

Shocker Fans > MSU Fans (no comparison) :yes:

Go Shox !!!

:wsu_posters:

I guess 3Gs gets credit for that. He had to encourage the crowd during a time out in the first half. He points out a not so full house when there's bad weather. I wish he wouldn't concern himself about the home crowd and just concentrate on his team a 100%.

[BostonWu]

We just have to hope we don't get a home game in the NIT.

If we do I wouldn't expect anything close to a sellout.

[ShoxFan963]

That was my first game at Koch in a year. I'm used to the the quietness of JQH. THAT WAS AN AWESOME CROWD. I drove back to Sgf last nite after hitting Nuway and my ears were ringing the entire time. I don't have to worry about talking today because I'm so hoarse. The Shocker fans did their part and we should have came away with a victory.

The noise level was definitly in the ballpark with the FSU game. WOW.

That possibly eliminated our at large hopes but if we can't win the tournament at STL, we don't deserve to go any way.

Shocker Fans > MSU Fans (no comparison) :yes:

Go Shox !!!

:wsu_posters:

I guess 3Gs gets credit for that. He had to encourage the crowd during a time out in the first half. He points out a not so full house when there's bad weather. I wish he wouldn't concern himself about the home crowd and just concentrate on his team a 100%.

First of all, in no way was he trying to "get the crowd going because it wasn't loud enough". He was just pumped up. The team had just made a nice run to get them back into the game and he was loving it. Why not get louder when everyone is pumped up?

Second, when he pointed out the no so full house, it wasn't a jab at the crowd. He just simply stated that it wasn't a full house and it affected the team a bit. That is all.

[kochHead]

We just have to hope we don't get a home game in the NIT.

If we do I wouldn't expect anything close to a sellout.

For sure. I refuse to attend an NIT game! Mostly because it would the realization of my worst fear for this season and the ultimate disappointment.

[1972Shocker]

If the NIT proves to be our lot this year then so be it. I will be there to cheer the Shocks on. The Shocks can really be furstrating at times, but they are still my Shocks so I will be there. I just would not feel right quitting on them.

:goshocks:

[MikeShox]

There is no doubt that the Koch atmosphere is one of the best in the country night after night. There are some that will never be satisfied with our crowd's efforts but I won't trade us for anyone. Look in the stands at some of the games on TV, prime time games, and note some abysmal attendance.

We've lost 4 very painful games at home this year. Coaches are to blame, players are to blame, the fans are to blame, take your pick. Everbodys taking shots. Last year we were 17-0 until the NIT. Was last years team better.

Look at the big picture, and I mean several years. This is not the 90's. We defend our home ground very well. I cannot explain why we are struggling this year to protect our turf. There are all kinds of theories. There are no doubts in my mind, however, that we will continue to win the majority of games at home.

Most so-so teams win the majority of their games at home. We are struggling at home this year because we're not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough and dog-gone it, people just exploit it.

I know there are some wonderful knowlegeable people on this board who easily can explain everything. However, I'm amazed that this year our team is "not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough" to win at home. You probably would have said the same thing about last year's team because they won at home and not on the road.

How many of you really believe that teams without any toughness can go 8 - 0 on the road in the Valley, even on a year that the Valley is down? I have personally witnessed a team that really seemed "tough" in 3 neutral games and 3 road games that I have been on hand to watch this year. I will defend this team in the loss to UConn because they played what has proven to be a great team down to the wire in spite of the most one sided officiating job I have ever witnessed by one official who was determined that WSU would not win. All other games I have been on hand to see personally, the Shockers have been very strong. Virginia was not a great opponent, but the way they jumped on the Shox early, and to have the Shox come back to demolish them, then the way the Shockers took care of the other neutral and road games I have seen, I have seen toughness. I realize that Bradley, Drake and UNI are not the same teams they have always been, but I also know that the Shox have not been able to overcome that in the past. The Shox are one game away from going undefeated on the road. How many teams have ever done that? Bradley did one year. Indiana State did in the magical Larry Bird year. The mighty Shocker teams of Ralph Miller never did it, in fact never came really close. The Gene Smithson teams with the likes of Carr, Levingston, McDaniel, Sherrod, Randy Smithson and the rest had the year when they only lost to Illinois State on the road in the Valley. In fact, this team is one game (a very tough game) away from succeeding in a perfect conference record on the road. Never done before!!!!

I guess what I am saying is that I am as disappointed as anybody out there in the losses to MSU, UNI, (especially SIU), and VCU, but to read what many fans are posting, you would thing that this team is one of the worst in history. I am unwilling to accept that a team that can win on the road as consistently as this team is not "not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough". Yes, they screwed up 4 times at home now. Yes, they lost it for 2 1/2 minutes at San Diego State (one of the very best teams in the country) and yes, they failed with the help of one official to be UConn (another of the best teams in the country) in Hawaii. If this team is truly a group of weaklings like many of you would like to suggest, then I guess that is all we have had here in Wichita during the entire history of the program. The fact is that this is one of the best teams we have ever had an opportunity to watch.

I loved the Stallworth teams as much as anyone, but they lost games they had no right to lose. I went crazy over the Cheese Johnson teams, but they never won on the road like this team does. I was nuts for the Carr - Levingston - McDaniel teams, but they never won on the road better than this team. With the exception of Carr's senior year, they could never beat Tulsa here. Even when they would have a nice lead, they always managed to blow it in the 2nd half.

I agree that this team has failed on 4 occasions to win games at home that they should have won. Unlike so many of the smart people on this board, I really cannot explain why they fail to play the 1st half the way they can and end up having to battle back the 2nd half only to come up short. I realize that many of you have either watched basketball enough, or maybe even coached a little kids team once and thus have the excellent experience to be able to easily see how, if only you were the coach, this team would be undefeated. As for me, I have never coached and I have only been watching college basketball for a little over 50 years, so I fully understand that I could not take over the Shocker team and quickly develop an undefeated team.

I cannot understand why someone like Toure Murry can win 2 games with big late shots and come within 1.9 seconds of winning a game in St Louis with a spectacular 3 pointer, then fail to do so this year. I understand that he was just lucky when he penetrated, then found an open Garrett Stutz for the winning 3 pointer against LSU this year. If the brilliant minds out there want to say that he is weak and should not be there at the end, I'm sure you're a hell of a lot smarter than I am. I'm sure you would have had someone out there other than him who would have won those games his freshman year.

What I do know is that I've been around these young men a great deal. I know that they are very special young men and that I will cherish my times with them, both here and on the road. I expect a great deal of success from them in their lives. In spite of those on this board who consider them "not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough", I happen to love these guys and am thrilled that they made the choice to come to Wichita State University.

It has been fun (at times) to have been a part of ShockerNet. Bye

[SHOXAAC]

There is no doubt that the Koch atmosphere is one of the best in the country night after night. There are some that will never be satisfied with our crowd's efforts but I won't trade us for anyone. Look in the stands at some of the games on TV, prime time games, and note some abysmal attendance.

We've lost 4 very painful games at home this year. Coaches are to blame, players are to blame, the fans are to blame, take your pick. Everbodys taking shots. Last year we were 17-0 until the NIT. Was last years team better.

Look at the big picture, and I mean several years. This is not the 90's. We defend our home ground very well. I cannot explain why we are struggling this year to protect our turf. There are all kinds of theories. There are no doubts in my mind, however, that we will continue to win the majority of games at home.

Most so-so teams win the majority of their games at home. We are struggling at home this year because we're not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough and dog-gone it, people just exploit it.

I know there are some wonderful knowlegeable people on this board who easily can explain everything. However, I'm amazed that this year our team is "not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough" to win at home. You probably would have said the same thing about last year's team because they won at home and not on the road.

How many of you really believe that teams without any toughness can go 8 - 0 on the road in the Valley, even on a year that the Valley is down? I have personally witnessed a team that really seemed "tough" in 3 neutral games and 3 road games that I have been on hand to watch this year. I will defend this team in the loss to UConn because they played what has proven to be a great team down to the wire in spite of the most one sided officiating job I have ever witnessed by one official who was determined that WSU would not win. All other games I have been on hand to see personally, the Shockers have been very strong. Virginia was not a great opponent, but the way they jumped on the Shox early, and to have the Shox come back to demolish them, then the way the Shockers took care of the other neutral and road games I have seen, I have seen toughness. I realize that Bradley, Drake and UNI are not the same teams they have always been, but I also know that the Shox have not been able to overcome that in the past. The Shox are one game away from going undefeated on the road. How many teams have ever done that? Bradley did one year. Indiana State did in the magical Larry Bird year. The mighty Shocker teams of Ralph Miller never did it, in fact never came really close. The Gene Smithson teams with the likes of Carr, Levingston, McDaniel, Sherrod, Randy Smithson and the rest had the year when they only lost to Illinois State on the road in the Valley. In fact, this team is one game (a very tough game) away from succeeding in a perfect conference record on the road. Never done before!!!!

I guess what I am saying is that I am as disappointed as anybody out there in the losses to MSU, UNI, (especially SIU), and VCU, but to read what many fans are posting, you would thing that this team is one of the worst in history. I am unwilling to accept that a team that can win on the road as consistently as this team is not "not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough". Yes, they screwed up 4 times at home now. Yes, they lost it for 2 1/2 minutes at San Diego State (one of the very best teams in the country) and yes, they failed with the help of one official to be UConn (another of the best teams in the country) in Hawaii. If this team is truly a group of weaklings like many of you would like to suggest, then I guess that is all we have had here in Wichita during the entire history of the program. The fact is that this is one of the best teams we have ever had an opportunity to watch.

I loved the Stallworth teams as much as anyone, but they lost games they had no right to lose. I went crazy over the Cheese Johnson teams, but they never won on the road like this team does. I was nuts for the Carr - Levingston - McDaniel teams, but they never won on the road better than this team. With the exception of Carr's senior year, they could never beat Tulsa here. Even when they would have a nice lead, they always managed to blow it in the 2nd half.

I agree that this team has failed on 4 occasions to win games at home that they should have won. Unlike so many of the smart people on this board, I really cannot explain why they fail to play the 1st half the way they can and end up having to battle back the 2nd half only to come up short. I realize that many of you have either watched basketball enough, or maybe even coached a little kids team once and thus have the excellent experience to be able to easily see how, if only you were the coach, this team would be undefeated. As for me, I have never coached and I have only been watching college basketball for a little over 50 years, so I fully understand that I could not take over the Shocker team and quickly develop an undefeated team.

I cannot understand why someone like Toure Murry can win 2 games with big late shots and come within 1.9 seconds of winning a game in St Louis with a spectacular 3 pointer, then fail to do so this year. I understand that he was just lucky when he penetrated, then found an open Garrett Stutz for the winning 3 pointer against LSU this year. If the brilliant minds out there want to say that he is weak and should not be there at the end, I'm sure you're a hell of a lot smarter than I am. I'm sure you would have had someone out there other than him who would have won those games his freshman year.

What I do know is that I've been around these young men a great deal. I know that they are very special young men and that I will cherish my times with them, both here and on the road. I expect a great deal of success from them in their lives. In spite of those on this board who consider them "not tough enough, smart enough, patient enough", I happen to love these guys and am thrilled that they made the choice to come to Wichita State University.

It has been fun (at times) to have been a part of ShockerNet. Bye

You reference in your last paragraph about being around these young men a great deal and you will cherish your time with them is curious to me. My first thought is that you are the great Shocker fan, Jon Markwell, that Suellentrop featured today in the Eagle. But your SN name of MikeShox would contest that theory. If you are him, my genuine gratitude for supporting this program over the years and traveling with them this year. If you are not Jon Markwell, I still applaude you for your support.

With that said, your tone and attitude of your post didn't get you off to a very good start IMO. Your "wonderful knowledgeable people who can explain everything" was certainly intended to be tongue-in-cheek I'm sure. You answered your very concerns yourself. You said how the Shockers can lack toughness when going 8-0 on the road, then even admitted the Valley being "down" this year. Good observation on your part. I don't have to go any further there. If a team is "tough, smart & patient" enough to go 8-0 on the road, don't you think if they truly are "tough, smart & patient, they would take care of business at home? If a team is "tough, smart & patient," they are that nearly all the time. This years team is not...PERIOD; or they would not have lost 4 games at home.

You referenced the Shockers are one game away from going undefeated on the road, citing Bradley (1986) & Indiana State (1979) as two teams to have done it. Well guess what Mike, those teams also were tough, smart & patient enough to get it done at home as well. Bradley was a #7 seed in the NCAA Tournament and got to the sweet-16. Tell me I don't have to talk about the "tough, smart, patient" Sycamore team of '79.

I am as big a Shocker fan as anybody...but I am a realist. I'm not a "my teams s#*t doesn't stink." I will root for them regardless. Heck some posters are already saying they won't go to an NIT game, if that is our fate. I will be there with all the Black & Gold I own. This team is talented, but soft.

This team is 8-0, with the potential to finish 9-0 on the road and we are at the realization they will have to win on March 6 just go get to the dance. A team that is potentially 9-0 on the road should be debating whether the NCAA seed will be a 5, 6 or 7.

You claim this is one of the "best teams we have ever had the opportunity to watch." Maybe if the "best" team list had about 10 options to it. It wouldn't make my top-5...sorry.

You keep comparing this teams toughness in relation to the MVC to the Stallworth, Carr, Levingston, X teams. The Valley was a "feared" league in those days. The Valley today couldn't carry yesteryears gym bag.

In closing, Mike, I respect your commitment and love for this team. I'm with you...it's just I come from the angle of "tough-love." I'm realistic. This team is talented, but soft, which at the end of the day might equal the NIT. I will be there with them every step of the way.

:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

[Ashockalypse]

There seems to be a lot of people quitting Shockernet this weekend. That is pretty weak!

[ShockBand]

So long as everyone keeps paying their monthly premium fees... oh wait... :)