Another failed coaching adjustment.....

[ShockerFever]

HCGM recruits well. He represents the university positively. His players are good students and outstanding young men.

HCGM is not a very good game coach, nor is he particularly apt at building a schedule.

I've got to disagree a bit with the recruiting part.

Marshall was forced to recruit JuCo when he got here. Continuing to recruit JuCo is looking like an effort to produce a quick winner and get a BCS job.

Switching to HS players would have provided a slower route to success, but 4-year players don't tend to lose to weak teams at home.

When Marshall has recruited HS players, his record is hardly better than Turgeon's inability to recruit front court players. Marshall's successful HS recruits are Stutz, Kyles, Williams and Murry. That's one a year.

Marshall's plan to get out of Wichita pretty quick took a major hit tonight.

It's my opinion that Marshall is more concerned with the future of Marshall than the future of WSU. His method of building Shocker basketball looks more like an attempt at a quick fix rather than an attempt to build the foundation for something long-term.

His losing a class (Manigalt, Hamilton, TRich(?) and DWill (?) is reminiscent of Turgeon's bailing when he lost a class or with Lowery's losing players at SIU.

When the going gets tough, this team goes into "hero" mode and a few players start going one-on-one or taking stupid shots so they can be the "hero".

Unselfish when winning by double-digits, but playing JuCo ball in tough games has to go to coaching.

Bingo.

[shockerfan]

Well since GM is obviously not needed to get the team ready and mentally focused for a game we should save the $750,000 we are paying him and just get rid of the coaching. Obviously KC feels that a coach isn't needed in preperation for an opponent so I guess we can just let the players do it all. :roll:

[shockerfan]

HCGM is not the best bench coach I have seen, and he gets outcoached particularly in our 3 home losses this season. This better be the final wakeup call to him to toughen up this team, and have them ready to play EVERY game.

Want to see a tough team? Watch Pittsburgh play.

You think Jamie Dixon has to pep talk his team to get them tough? Get them ready to play? Jamie Dixon's players show up ready. They show up to win. That's why they're at Pitt and not Wichita State. They worked as hard as they could to be as great at basketball as they can possibly be so they could go to a power school like Pitt. They don't slack off half the time and never hit their potential in half the games like a certain Wichita State post player. They also don't show up to sleep walk through an easy game. They show up to win every single night.

And NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with Jamie Dixon?? I guess he should be canned also. He's obviously overpaid too....

[swish1]

HCGM recruits well. He represents the university positively. His players are good students and outstanding young men.

HCGM is not a very good game coach, nor is he particularly apt at building a schedule.

I've got to disagree a bit with the recruiting part.

Marshall was forced to recruit JuCo when he got here. Continuing to recruit JuCo is looking like an effort to produce a quick winner and get a BCS job.

Switching to HS players would have provided a slower route to success, but 4-year players don't tend to lose to weak teams at home.

When Marshall has recruited HS players, his record is hardly better than Turgeon's inability to recruit front court players. Marshall's successful HS recruits are Stutz, Kyles, Williams and Murry. That's one a year.

Marshall's plan to get out of Wichita pretty quick took a major hit tonight.

It's my opinion that Marshall is more concerned with the future of Marshall than the future of WSU. His method of building Shocker basketball looks more like an attempt at a quick fix rather than an attempt to build the foundation for something long-term.

His losing a class (Manigalt, Hamilton, TRich(?) and DWill (?) is reminiscent of Turgeon's bailing when he lost a class or with Lowery's losing players at SIU.

When the going gets tough, this team goes into "hero" mode and a few players start going one-on-one or taking stupid shots so they can be the "hero".

Unselfish when winning by double-digits, but playing JuCo ball in tough games has to go to coaching.

you dont think that recruiting elite juco talent is a way for schools like wsu to compete with supposed more major schools? if marshall or any coach that comes to wsu develops good recruiting pipelines to elite juco's it is a great thing for both him as a coach and wsu as a program. does it also help him leave for a more high profile job? probably, but it also makes wsu better.

this idea that 4 year players dont lose home games but juco's do is ludicrous. durley, stutz, murry, hatch, ellis, kyles, and blair are not juco players. in fact the only juco's that play are ragland and ben smith.

blair and durley are 5 year players... hatch is ancient.

i sure wish marshall had never recruited clevin hannah, he was terrible...

[vancedave56]

This loss has little to do with coaching, this loss is on the players. They lack the mental disposition of a champion. They have no killer instinct and their play is very lackluster at times.

It is quite obvious they were going through the motions tonight. They see the 8th place team come into the Koch who just had three players suspended and they think this game is going to be a walk in the park. Coaching has nothing to do with that. It is responsible for the players to execute the plays GM calls. 15 turnovers to this crap ass team is inexcusable.

With UNI tanking at the moment, even IF we do win at their place, their RPI will not help us as much as we liked to see. It is evident that it is now St. Louis or bust. The experts will now point out this horrible loss and no quality wins. Please Sunshine Pumpers, give it up with any hope of making an at-large, winning the valley.

I agree with everything you said until the "sunshine pumper" comment. Why do some people always have to call names when giving their opinion? Why can't your opinion stand on its feet without slamming somebody else? Please, just stick to the facts without throwing barbs.

[ripemupshocks]

All season long I've tried to convince myself this seasons team is not fundamentally the same as last seasons team (which of course lost in the first round of the NIT, at home), even though the one glaring difference is the starting senior point guard and top scorer from last seasons team graduated. I got all wrapped up in the top 25 talk and the rpi talk and the NCAA bracket talk. Now I'm afraid I can deny it no longer;

Hello NIT.

I wonder if they'll send us to Tractor Tech?

[SB Shock]

HCGM recruits well. He represents the university positively. His players are good students and outstanding young men.

HCGM is not a very good game coach, nor is he particularly apt at building a schedule.

I've got to disagree a bit with the recruiting part.

Marshall was forced to recruit JuCo when he got here. Continuing to recruit JuCo is looking like an effort to produce a quick winner and get a BCS job.

Switching to HS players would have provided a slower route to success, but 4-year players don't tend to lose to weak teams at home.

When Marshall has recruited HS players, his record is hardly better than Turgeon's inability to recruit front court players. Marshall's successful HS recruits are Stutz, Kyles, Williams and Murry. That's one a year.

Marshall's plan to get out of Wichita pretty quick took a major hit tonight.

It's my opinion that Marshall is more concerned with the future of Marshall than the future of WSU. His method of building Shocker basketball looks more like an attempt at a quick fix rather than an attempt to build the foundation for something long-term.

I agree with you assessment. And with the Omaha media openly commenting (all be it in blogs) that Marshall (assuming through his agent) is really trying to get his name out for BCS jobs reinforces it.

I think were about to find out if our ADES has what it takes to be an AD.

[tropicalshox]

Besides Matt P. is anybody else saying Marshall is shopping around?

[RoyalShock]

Aaegh, there isn't much of your post I can agree with.

Marshall succeeding here means we are all happy campers.

Recruiting juco players put us in the positions of having NCAA expectations the past two years. Last year without Hannah? Not a chance. This year without Smith and Ragland? Add two more losses and very little at-large hope going into last night's game.

Had Marshall not brought in Hannah, Smith and Ragland we'd all be blaming him for not plugging holes in our roster. You can't have it both ways. There was a window of opportunity for us to get back to the NCAA tournament and maintain that position. I'm not going to blame him for that.

All the work they did to get Orukpe here doesn't sound like "quick fix" to me. Recruiting Evan Wessel, Perry Ellis and the other local kids doesn't sound like a quick fix either.

I'm not saying Marshall doesn't have greater aspirations than Wichita State, but after being rather selective during his time at Winthrop I don't see evidence of him trying to make a quick bolt out of Dodge, errr, Wichita.

[SubGod22]

I'm not saying Marshall doesn't have greater aspirations than Wichita State, but after being rather selective during his time at Winthrop I don't see evidence of him trying to make a quick bolt out of Dodge, errr, Wichita.

With games like last night, he doesn't have to worry about bolting quickly. Who'd want a coach that gets his team to play like that? Not attractive to BcS schools.

[SB Shock]

Besides Matt P. is anybody else saying Marshall is shopping around?

Pivovar from the Omaha paper in his blog mentioned it.

[tropicalshox]

I go along with Royal. It would of took some very highly rated high school recruits to give us what the jucos did. We had no chance going in that direction.

[shox7]

This was a "team loss" from HCGM to his assistants to the 10 players. Rags did not play enough minutes (18). That is on HCGM. Ben Smith was scored on repeatedly by Fay. In the first game Gabe and Aaron had Fay for most of the night and he was held in check. On to the players DK was 1 for 8, with one missed dunk and 2 other missed bunnies, 1 being a uncontested tip. TM was out of control when he was at the point, the only time he was effective was when Rags was the point guard. Stutz had his worst game in the conference. It goes on and on. Last two points on HCGM when ever he gets so upset he totally loses it on his players his focus is on being upset and not coaching the game. Reference UNI and Mo St loses at home. Both times HCGM totally lost his cool with the kids. That hasn't worked and won't work with this group. Lastly when he gets in close games HCGM panics and it reflects in his play calling, use of timeouts, subsitutions. Some of that has to be the assistants fault for not helping him make calm decisons with a clear head.

[fastbow]

Besides, even if Marshall isn't recruiting for a quick fix and dump, he needs one. Look at yourselves. In one word, you want Gregg to take it slow and develop players, then in the next you're ready to fire him when he doesn't win.

Like my old signature used to say, ShockerNet would be a terrible AD. You have no patience. Either we get a quick winner, or a solid long-term team. We've been fortunate to have elements of both, but unless we get very lucky, truly having both is impossible.

[ShockBand]

Oh, fastbow, this is half the fun of a message board. On here, we're all expert players, coaches, ADs, sports psychologists, journalists, announcers, play-by-play and color commentators, game night arena managers, pep band directors, sound system technicians, concession workers, ticket takers, ushers, custodians, box office managers, parking lot attendants, snowplow drivers, university presidents, regents members, legislators, etc, etc, etc.

I'm just glad when I do something stupid at work I just get quizzical looks from my students, and not thousands going "what the #@!% did you do that for - IDIOT!"

:)