answers to the age old shockernet question.

[William]

How many times over the years have we seen a post like this

Why do we always make a statistically average guy look like Cy Young?

I have seen it so many times it now makes me want to vomit, so here
is the answer to that question.

Years ago I asked a baseball guy what is the difference between a division
1 baseball prospect and a kid that is not quite there? I expected him to
rattle off about 90 mph fastballs, 6.5 sixties, and home run power, but here
is what he said, If you can throw 2 or 3 pitches for a strike, you can get
people out in division 1, and if you can hit a curve ball you can hit at this level.

So next time it is happening to us just realize the puss-chucker is probably
changing speeds and locations for strikes i.e. pitching, and the hitters are
not faring well against non-fastballs. It's really not that shocking when you
understand baseball.

[ABC]

How many licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

[lostshocker]

glad your baseball guy dumbed it down enough for you to understand. at least i hope that is it, otherwise your baseball guy isnt very bright.

[ShockTalk]

I understand what you're saying William, but answer me this:
The Redbirds threw 5 pitchers at us with ERAs 5.22 or better for a total of 15 innings, yet they allowed 19 earned runs.
On the other hand, the Redbirds also threw 4 pitchers with ERAs of 6.46, 6.67, 8.58, and 9.00 for a total of 11 innings and they allowed ZERO earned runs.

Why? These were not average stat guys and they're not fooling others. San Jose St was much the same way. Their best pitcher (far and away), we hit for 5 runs in 5.2 innings, yet managed only 8 runs over 19.1 innings to the rest of the staff who averaged 6+ ERAs.

:noidea: :wacko:

[KC Shox]

Uh.......yeah. Considering J.D. Learnard coming into this game had an ERA over 6, allowed more hits than innings pitched and had allowed more base-on-balls than K's means, according to William, that he is a first team All-MVC type of pitcher. This by going 5.1 innings against us today and giving up no runs. I wonder how he got that 6+ ERA prior to facing us William?

Or perhaps you can spin how a guy who was 0-4 with a 6 ERA throw 5.2 innings and allow 2 earned runs against us in our loss to San Jose State?

I'm tired of seeing these BELOW AVERAGE pitchers having the game of their lives against us more often than not. These guys have high ERA's for a reason William, because they don't throw 2 to 3 pitches effectively and consistently. We should be obliterating these shmo's.

[ICT Ragman]

Conversely, in his 3 innings today we had 2 earned runs and 5 hits vs a reliever who had a 1.35 ERA (and a 48-13 K to BB ratio) in 40 innings pitched before today.

[WstateU]

Re: answers to the age old shockernet question.

puss-chucker

[William]

Bad pitching numbers come from walks and being behind in the count
consistently. This guy today did he walk many? Did he have many 2-0
3-1 counts? If the answer to those questions is no then this explains his
success, the shockers can't control whether or not a 6.0 era guy happens
to do his job that day, they can only try to work him into fastball counts, or
protect and put the ball in play hard somewhere.

another note on 6.0 era guys, If they are not in the top three getting
70 to 100 innings a year, it does not take much to blow up an era. A lot
of relievers may only have 20-40 innings a season. My point is 6.0 era
guys are capable of good outings if they throw strikes, it may not seem
like it to you but more often then not when we face a guy with a high era
he pitches like it ( behind in the count).

[ABC]

Conversely, in his 3 innings today we had 2 earned runs and 5 hits vs a reliever who had a 1.35 ERA (and a 48-13 K to BB ratio) in 40 innings pitched before today.

What say you William, KC Shox, KU Dave, Wraggs, Hersey Highway?

[William]

Conversely, in his 3 innings today we had 2 earned runs and 5 hits vs a reliever who had a 1.35 ERA (and a 48-13 K to BB ratio) in 40 innings pitched before today.

What say you William, KC Shox, KU Dave, Wraggs, Hersey Highway?

sometimes pitchers do their job, throw strikes keep hitters off balance, most of the time this will be succesful.

sometimes they don't and usually this means a bad outing

however, rarely but occasionally good pitching gets roughed up and conversely bad pitching get bailed out by overly aggressive hitters and
good defense.

[billybud]

Sometimes it isn't the pitcher...it is the hitters.

Some teams are known for being very, very patient at the plate. They are coached to make the pitcher throw to them.

The teams that are best at being patient get walks, get the pitcher behind in the count, and select better balls to swing at. And you have to hit those pitches that you make them throw across the plate.

A team full of tough outs can make a pitcher look worse than he is. A team that gets behind in the count consistantly makes a mediocre pitcher have a much better day.

[William]

Sometimes it isn't the pitcher...it is the hitters.

Some teams are known for being very, very patient at the plate. They are coached to make the pitcher throw to them.

The teams that are best at being patient get walks, get the pitcher behind in the count, and select better balls to swing at. And you have to hit those pitches that you make them throw across the plate.

A team full of tough outs can make a pitcher look worse than he is. A team that gets behind in the count consistantly makes a mediocre pitcher have a much better day.

Well said billybud

[WSUwatcher]

Yep...

Excellent point, billybud.

Around here, Gary Ward's old Oklahoma State teams were known for going to great lengths to work deep counts. Interestingly, years ago WSU used to be very good at drawing walks, too -- much more so than now. Not to pick on WSU hitting coach Jim Thomas (I've done enough of that already, and others have done much more), but as a player he was an extreme contact guy: not many strikeouts, but not many walks either. He put the ball in play, much more so than some of his teammates did. I can't help thinking that tendency of his is reflected in the guys he recruits and also the approach Shocker hitters take themselves.

Personally, I'd far rather see the WSU hitters coached by another guy named Stephenson: Gene's brother Phil, who had a great eye and was selective at the plate -- but that's a whole separate discussion.

[Aargh]

The word has been out on WSU for quite a while. A guy that can get the ball over the plate in the low 80's can beat WSU. A lot of Valley teams recruit pitchers specifically to pitch against WSU.

A lot of pithing staffs in the Valley are loaded up with guys who throw 70's breaking stuff and 80's fastballs. Everybody else in the Valley sees that every day in practice and their batters rock those guys. WSU's batters don't see that in practice and it can take them some time to figure out when the ball is going to get there and where it's going to be when it gets there.

Junk ballers always look good against WSU. Pitchers that WSU wouldn't recruit tend to be effective against WSU.

[William]

The word has been out on WSU for quite a while. A guy that can get the ball over the plate in the low 80's can beat WSU. A lot of Valley teams recruit pitchers specifically to pitch against WSU.

A lot of pithing staffs in the Valley are loaded up with guys who throw 70's breaking stuff and 80's fastballs. Everybody else in the Valley sees that every day in practice and their batters rock those guys. WSU's batters don't see that in practice and it can take them some time to figure out when the ball is going to get there and where it's going to be when it gets there.

Junk ballers always look good against WSU. Pitchers that WSU wouldn't recruit tend to be effective against WSU.

I mean no dissrespect, but this theory is nonsense, i've never seen a team
stymied by their bp pitcher because he was throwing 65 mph. ok thats a joke not a serious analogy, but it is not hard to adjust down the talent level
ladder, it is a little tough to adjust when going up the ladder though.