Who should be discharged?

[ShockTalk]

I do not want Gene to leave any time soon.

But he hates losing more than anyone. If he ever gets to the point where he doesn't feel like he can get us back to dominating this conference again and winning in the post-season he would probably resiign.

Really?

“And, frankly, I didn’t manage well, so we all ought to be fired,” he said. “Obviously, I’m not getting anything out of the players.”


Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2010/04/13/126...#ixzz0l5cwJ4yX

Now I know he was ranting, but maybe we can agree to disagree about your statement. I don't believe he feels he can or wants to put in that level of effort. I'm beginning to believe that he feels as long as he can stay at or near the top of a weak baseball conference, he will become the college all-time winning coach.

For the record, I don't feel he should be replaced at this time, but I do feel changes need to happen.

I don't know who you are, but I have a feeling that I know Gene a lot better than you do. Anyone who is close to Gene at all, knows how much he hates to lose.

Believe me, he takes loses harder than anyone.

That should be true of most any professional coach worth his salt. But, people change, coaches change. The losing may be just as hard to take as ever, it just that what one has to do to relieve that pain of losing may become just as hard to take. We've all seen certain sports professionals that don't know "when to say when". Sometimes it comes in the form of lack of phyisical ability, sometimes mental, and sometimes a combination. I don't know if this applies to Gene, but the program has changed and not just in stature.

[ShockTalk]

shocker3 - One more thing. I'm certain you know Gene better than I. Probably as a friend, maybe close friend. That gives you insites, valuable insites, to the man others don't see. That friendship can also cloud one's views of realities when things don't happen as usual. Note in your own post you say: "he probably would resign".

[ABC]

This notion that Sexton should force GS to fire Thomas is stupid.

Please tell me just one instance when an Athletic Director has forced a head coach to terminate an assistant coach.

[ShockTalk]

This notion that Sexton should force GS to fire Thomas is stupid.

Please tell me just one instance when an Athletic Director has forced a head coach to terminate an assistant coach.

Not saying you're not right, but how would we know. I'm sure an AD, for appearance purposes, is going to let the coach do the termination.

[Veritas]

This notion that Sexton should force GS to fire Thomas is stupid.

Please tell me just one instance when an Athletic Director has forced a head coach to terminate an assistant coach.

So... based on what happens in corporate America, are you naive enough to think that a CEO or VP does not ever ever give direction or demand that an employee be discharged that is not one of their direct reports?

It does indeed happen - frequently. I'm sure it happens in college athletics as well ABC...

[Veritas]

Thanks Aargh. Sorry I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. Sometimes my in my efforts to be "more" clear, I make it more confusing.

On item #2, you bring up an interesting proposal as to what I viewed his semi-retirement. I thought Gene may have just decided that he didn't want to work at it as hard, or harder, at WSU and looked to OU. Your statement may mean that decision was somewhat made for him, if not then, possible now.

As for #1, Veritas started his post saying that he'd most likely always support Gene as HC at WSU. I was asking what would change that. He made the statement of Gene's loyalty to program, kids and staff. I'm not sure you can be fully to the program, or the kids, without the ability to lose some loyalty to staff if neccesary.

My support of Gene depends on his 100% commitment to the program and representing the school in an ethical manner.

The loyalty issue he has that strangles his ability to make decisions is a paradox that he can't see through. That is why sometimes it takes a boss, or outsider to give objective advice and direction. If he has equal loyalty to the assistant coaches and program, he will spin with his decision making. One of Gene's most positive attributes is loyalty which can then become a negative attribute. He needs to prioritize. The program should come first.

[SpanglerFan316]

This is a completely silly thread. If I was the AD, the most I would do is give him a nice (potential) raise by adding (or adding to) a performance clause for reaching the CWS and for winning the CWS.

[Veritas]

Those current performance clauses haven't done much lately Spangler. Sometimes it takes more than extrinsic rewards.

[ShockTalk]

This is a completely silly thread. If I was the AD, the most I would do is give him a nice (potential) raise by adding (or adding to) a performance clause for reaching the CWS and for winning the CWS.

Sorry. To me that's a silly post. You're saying his effort is driven primarily by money. If he does already have such a clause, it isn't a driving force. If you increase or add it, then, again, you're tying his effort to money. I just don't believe Gene's on that wave length.

[SpanglerFan316]

Perhaps we should recall that WSU was one super-regional series away from the CWS in 2007 & 2008. When did the Shocks miss the NCAA tourney? (2000? 1999?) How many NCAA tourney has WSU missed since 1987?

(If WSU MBB went to the NCAA tourney as often as the baseball team, we would be looking at Butler, Gonzaga, etc. in the rear view mirror. Lose the NC game? Butler did it once; WSU baseball has 3 such finishes (and one NC). Ralph Miller is far behind Gene in WSU's coaching tree. Only WSU's bowling team outshines WSU baseball - and WSU bowling is known world-wide.)

[ShockTalk]

I took a look at the Shox (Stevenson) history compared to other teams they have had a long history with and who they have played a minimum of 10 games in the 2000s. In my example are the more competitve teams from the Valley, Creighton, Mo St, SIU, and Evansville. From non-con, KU, K St, NB, ORU, and LBS.

Through 1999, the Shox had an overall winning % of .773 (290-85). In the non-con games, .766 (111-34) and in Valley games, .778 (179-51).

After 1999, the overall winning % is .553 (155-125). In non-con games, .442 (46-58) and in Valley games, .619 (109-67).

If you think the big change non-con games has come from Big XII money ties, think again. Against ORU and LBS through 1999, the Shox won .755 (34-11). Since 1999, the Shox are .333 (16-32).

[SB Shock]

Perhaps we should recall that WSU was one super-regional series away from the CWS in 2007 & 2008. When did the Shocks miss the NCAA tourney? (2000? 1999?) How many NCAA tourney has WSU missed since 1987?

(If WSU MBB went to the NCAA tourney as often as the baseball team, we would be looking at Butler, Gonzaga, etc. in the rear view mirror. Lose the NC game? Butler did it once; WSU baseball has 3 such finishes (and one NC). Ralph Miller is far behind Gene in WSU's coaching tree. Only WSU's bowling team outshines WSU baseball - and WSU bowling is known world-wide.)

1. Wsu imo has underachieved in number of super regionals reached since it has been implemented in 1999.

2. Gene Stephenson actions on or off the field can be tolerated when his programs is winning. otherwise he is hard to take.

3. a lot of gene supporters are dying off.

4. Wsu is so far removed from their last cws that this program is no longer a self fullfilling prophecy.

I doubt gene is in any trouble but he won't be getting any raises soon. The community support will probably decline but will quickly return if he can find some energy in turning the program around.

But I think what is concerning to some including myself is we have seen this program in decline for quite awhile no. There has been glimpses of hope but there are no signs this program is getting better.

[ShockerFever]

This is a completely silly thread. If I was the AD, the most I would do is give him a nice (potential) raise by adding (or adding to) a performance clause for reaching the CWS and for winning the CWS.

You are a fool.

[SpanglerFan316]

But I think what is concerning to some including myself is we have seen this program in decline for quite awhile no. There has been glimpses of hope but there are no signs this program is getting better.

This point is easy to agree with. It used to be that an infield play was automatic when WSU was on the field. More than offense, the decline in defense by the Shocks bothers me the most.

[1972Shocker]

We had our chance to go a different direction when Gene headed south a few years back.

Unfortunately, we left the back door open for Gene and crew and now we are probably going to have to live with Gene until he decides he is ready to retire or he does something else really dumb away from the field.

I think Brent is still capable of putting together an effective pitching staff.

I think we can still put a decent defensive team on the field.

The big question is whether we can put an above average offensive attack together.

Whether or not Gene can or will recognize this and decide that a shake up in his staff is warranted is uncertain. My guess is Gene will not be making any such changes.