Draft

[shocker22]

I disagree, it would be a tremendous loss! Not only the experience factor for 1, but I am one who believes his first 20 games and his last 15 games are more of what he is as a player offensively than were the middle 25 games when he struggled mightily. No one can argue that he is by far the best defensive outfielder on the team and I would contend one of the best defensive outfielders to put on a uniform in some time for WSU. To say he would not be a tremendous loss is just absolutely not intelligent, IMO.

I guess I'm in the "not intelligent" class, then.

RJ is a plug-n-play outfielder for WSU. Sure he can go get some balls, but when haven't we had a outfielders that can do that (Dirks, Brown, Blasi, McCarty, etc.)? Heck, Letorneau might have the OF skills of RJ. His offensive production can easily be replaced. He finished pretty strong to get his 7 HR (led the team) and 36 RBI (2nd on the team), but mostly due to being dropped down to an RBI spot in the order. His 19 extra base hits and .365 OB% are barely average on a very poor offensive team. In '08, his stats weren't impressive at all, even batting between Dirks and Gillaspie.

Don't get me wrong, I like RJ and I think he can be an asset to the Shox next season as a leader. He's a solid guy to have in the line-up and in CF, but he's lightyears away from MLB. Going out to the Cape with Lowell, Cooper, and O'Brien can build a very good nucleus of leadership for the '10 team. Having a more productive team as a whole would help RJ's own production and probably increase his draft position in '10.

I hope RJ does what's right for RJ. The Shox can use him but won't suffer greatly if he decides to move on. Replacing his interview skills won't be easy, though.

--'85.

Bottom line is RJ needs to come back and learn how to recognize a change up before moving on.

[ddog]

Shocker 85 wrote:

The Shox can use him but won't suffer greatly if he decides to move on.

You might want to check with 10, JT, and Brent on that, I am sure their position is much different than yours. Letorneau cant touch the outfield skills of Jones, in fact, I am not sure he will be back in a WSU uniform next season. You think Jones' offensive skills are so poor, Letorneau's are horrible, and his arm strength is void.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think any one player will make WSU "suffer greatly" as it is too strong. Now if you loose 10 players in 1 season, that would make it suffer....can I submit Year 2009 as a reference point. My contention is that Jones would be missed greatly as a member of next years team, for many of the reasons you mentioned. I didn't say the Shocks would stink because he may not be there.

I do believe they would be a better team with him in center than without.

[shocker22]

Shocker 85 wrote:

The Shox can use him but won't suffer greatly if he decides to move on.

You might want to check with 10, JT, and Brent on that, I am sure their position is much different than yours. Letorneau cant touch the outfield skills of Jones, in fact, I am not sure he will be back in a WSU uniform next season. You think Jones' offensive skills are so poor, Letorneau's are horrible, and his arm strength is void.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think any one player will make WSU "suffer greatly" as it is too strong. Now if you loose 10 players in 1 season, that would make it suffer....can I submit Year 2009 as a reference point. My contention is that Jones would be missed greatly as a member of next years team, for many of the reasons you mentioned. I didn't say the Shocks would stink because he may not be there.

I do believe they would be a better team with him in center than without.

Kevin Hall will be in center next year. I doubt Letorneau will be back unless he is at 2nd as a back up. We are a better team with Jones and Jones needs to get better. I think it would be silly for him to go.

[SHOCKvalue]

We can reasonably replace RJ's talent. We can't replace his leadership, at least from the perspective of today's knowledge of the team dynamics.

If you thought last year was a vanilla group of melancholy-minded players, care to take a guess what the '10 team would look like without RJ?

He can ride the bench for all I care, but the fact is he is virtually the only guy on the team even remotely close to being a leader, at this point in time.

[WSUwatcher]

Jones

I do believe they would be a better team with him in center than without.

Joining 85 in the unintelligent group, I agree, ddog: the Shocks will definitely be better off with Jones in center than no one. Can you imagine all the balls that would drop if they played five infielders instead of having someone in center? Gee, in softball they use four outfielders, not just two.

Seriously, Jones is an outstanding defensive player. But 85 is exactly right when he says that RJ is not much more than what I've previously called, in the sabermetric term, basically a "replacement value" player. That's also a big reason he was drafted where he was -- even in CF, pro teams can't afford to carry a glove man who can't hit. His defensive skills may be the only reason he was drafted at all.

Now, I'll agree with this, too: if the 2010 version of Jones could show that the guy who got off to a good start this year, and finished fairly well and with some power, is the real deal -- or that he's even improved over that -- then Jones could be a huge asset next year. Considering that he's had quite awhile to show evidence of it, though, and has yet to do so -- not to mention that, despite his speed, he still can't bunt much and nevertheless tries to do so at some absolutely brainless times -- I'll believe it when I see it.

If he stays, and I think he will and should, I hope he proves me wrong -- because he needs to do so for the Shocks to make the offensive strides that will be required next year. Either that, or someone else needs to play who can provide more than "replacement value" offense in his spot.

[wushock]

That is almost as silly as you saying softball has 4 outfielders. I have been to a lot of softball games and I could only see 3.

[baseball06]

as a guy that has been around since the beginning of the Stephenson era this just shows how far our expectations have fallen if we think RJ is really all that. The shocks have always found great defensive outfielders(how about dirks and brown just in the last 3 yrs). Does anyone remember RJ's stats from Freshman yr- go back and compare them to Letourneau's stats. I do agree we are better with him but if we are ever going to get back to a regular top 10 team a guy like RJ would make a good 4th outfielder as a defensive replacement. Just my 2 cents - now he probably hit .390 next yr! :)

[ddog]

WSU Watcher wrote:

Joining 85 in the unintelligent group

Works for me!!

[BostonWu]

Didn't RJ lead the Cape in homers last summer?

[t7017s]

I believe that was Dusty Coleman... Thus the 2nd round money for the 28th round pick.

[ddog]

Actually Dusty had 2 HR's in the cape last year, but average was around .320. His 2nd round number was based on projectability and leverage since he was a draft eligible sophomore. RJ was second in the cape with 8 HR's behind Chris Dimingo of Louisville's 10. Average was .255, but considered OK in the cape, started off slow then finished strong. I have a strong feeling all the RJ haters will get their wish and he will be gone after a good showing in the Cape. You don't get asked to play there or repeat for a second year unless someone thinks you are pretty good.

His mediocrity for you wonderful home board fans probably wont have to be tolerated any more. Enjoy Letourneau in center since he can so elequently put ... probably easily replace RJ. I happen to be fan of his because he does things the right way with alot of baseball passion and love of the game. I am done on this subject, so all can now pile on with your RJ bashing and hope your team will be better with all the experience you will have in the outfield next year.

[Dan]

sound a little defensive

[t7017s]

Actually Dusty had 2 HR's in the cape last year, but average was around .320. His 2nd round number was based on projectability and leverage since he was a draft eligible sophomore. RJ was second in the cape with 8 HR's behind Chris Dimingo of Louisville's 10. Average was .255, but considered OK in the cape, started off slow then finished strong. I have a strong feeling all the RJ haters will get their wish and he will be gone after a good showing in the Cape. You don't get asked to play there or repeat for a second year unless someone thinks you are pretty good.

His mediocrity for you wonderful home board fans probably wont have to be tolerated any more. Enjoy Letourneau in center since he can so elequently put ... probably easily replace RJ. I happen to be fan of his because he does things the right way with alot of baseball passion and love of the game. I am done on this subject, so all can now pile on with your RJ bashing and hope your team will be better with all the experience you will have in the outfield next year.

For the record I'm not one of those "RJ bashers". I love the kid and his enthusiasm for the game. It really is refreshing to see a kid enjoy himself so much over the course of a game. Anyone that thinks Jones is just another fine defensive outfielder in the annals of shocker baseball is wrong imo. He is a tremendous outfielder and better than most we have ever had out there. His speed, arm, and reads are really something to see. Sure he hasn't been an all american at the plate but he has the potential to be if he could lay of the outside pitches. We have had some guys over the last several years in the outfield that were special as fielders and Jones takes a backseat to none of them.

Don't let the nancies get to you man. There is always going to be haters out there especially the spoiled ones that think the sky is falling because after 32 years we finally didn't get 40 wins and had a down year. Jones is a smart kid and has tremendous mental fortitude. Let RJ worry about RJ and the haters hate. RJ will be fine no matter what path he goes down. I hope he returns. I don't think I have ever seen a shocker outfielder make so many extremely difficult plays look like routine plays consistently over the years. He just makes everything look so easy out there. To say RJ makes the position look beautiful is an understatement. He is just so graceful its like he floats out there.

[shock10]

I have RJ penciled in as right field and hitting second. I hope he returns. To take us to the College World Series. Work on bunting RJ

[Shirley Schmidt]

Jones is a smart kid and has tremendous mental fortitude. Let RJ worry about RJ and the haters hate. RJ will be fine no matter what path he goes down. I hope he returns. I don't think I have ever seen a shocker outfielder make so many extremely difficult plays look like routine plays consistently over the years. He just makes everything look so easy out there. To say RJ makes the position look beautiful is an understatement. He is just so graceful its like he floats out there.

Can you say big "man crush" on Ryan Jones?

The Shockers will be fine if he returns, they will be fine if he does not.