The 2009 BCS Baseball Tournament

[CharlieHog]

anyway, the current system of rpi seems to be the root of all evil, the general idea isn't bad but the unintended consequences are playing into the power conf. hands. If these guys aren't going to schedule mid-majors anymore then I think the ncaa needs to set the non-conference schedules themselves.

When is the last time WSU went on the road to play a smaller/lesser program OOC? (Trips to Hawaii don't count.)

[BostonWu]

anyway, the current system of rpi seems to be the root of all evil, the general idea isn't bad but the unintended consequences are playing into the power conf. hands. If these guys aren't going to schedule mid-majors anymore then I think the ncaa needs to set the non-conference schedules themselves.

When is the last time WSU went on the road to play a smaller/lesser program OOC? (Trips to Hawaii don't count.)

For decades upon decades KU and KSU.

[WSUwatcher]

Retarded theories come from William-Orange juice comes from Oranges

William of Orange?

Personally, I'd be pleased to see conference tournaments eliminated, too, because they do dilute the value of the regular season. And in many cases they really don't raise much money, if any (e.g., the Valley whenever the baseball tournament isn't in Wichita).

But that isn't likely to happen any time soon, I fear. And as long as tey exist, they should be the first screening device. If you can't qualify for yours, then you automatically don't qualify for the next one (the NCAA), which by definition is more selective, not less.

[WSUwatcher]

When is the last time WSU went on the road to play a smaller/lesser program OOC? (Trips to Hawaii don't count.)

Also, Oral Roberts pretty much every year -- a good program, and traditionally a stronger one than KU and K-State, for that matter, although things may be changing in that respect -- but still a lesser one than WSU and in a (much) lesser conference.

[billybud]

Maybe the times are changing for the programs who do not play all of the "big three" major sports.

As more and more "all sports" schools have access to more money, more TV, and more athletes, the table is shifting even further.

The Big East is ruminating about it's "smorgasborg" approach, where some schools are in for football, some for basketball and some for baseball or any combination of the above. The conference has some advisors saying that it needs to settle on an identity.

The huge moneys now coming in..the SEC's recent contract is worth "billions" to the schools of the conference over the term of the contract. Every conference football game gets shown on ESPN/CBS and the other sports are seen almost as often.

The Big Ten has their own network with the cash beginning to flow.

The rich are indeed getting richer, getting more media time. There is still a tiny opening for the George Mason Cinderella story in basketball but it is long past the time where the Cinderella can actually make the final...and baseball (minus the California baseball schools and WSU) seems to be heading that way.

[CharlieHog]

When is the last time WSU went on the road to play a smaller/lesser program OOC? (Trips to Hawaii don't count.)

Also, Oral Roberts pretty much every year -- a good program, and traditionally a stronger one than KU and K-State, for that matter, although things may be changing in that respect -- but still a lesser one than WSU and in a (much) lesser conference.

KU, KSU, ORU all in your local region. This is the exact same scheduling that SEC, Big 12 and ACC teams do. Arkansas plays ORU and Missouri State. Ole Miss and Miss State play Memphis and Southern Miss. Alabama and Auburn play South Alabama, Troy, etc. Florida plays the smaller Florida programs. Texas, Texas A&M, etc play Texas Southern, UTEP, etc.

[shockfan89_]

The difference is WSU has to rely on those games to build our RPI. For the other teams you mentioned those are just schedule fillers. To WSU and other smaller conference schools those are must win games if you want an at large. For the bigger schools they don't really matter that much.

[ShockerFever]

The difference is WSU has to rely on those games to build our RPI. For the other teams you mentioned those are just schedule fillers. To WSU and other smaller conference schools those are must win games if you want an at large. For the bigger schools they don't really matter that much.

BINGO.

[CharlieHog]

It is a double-edged sword. Your conference hurts your RPI but on the other hand it is easier to win your conference (and a lot of games) than it would be in the SEC, Big 12 or ACC.

This isn't like basketball where moving to a big conference would open doors to better recruits. WSU gets as good of recruits as almost anybody in the major conferences (aside from places like Texas, Rice, FSU, Miami that are in such good recruiting areas they can't help but get top classes.)

MOST years you will have the same or better quality talent as the top conference teams, and play most of your games against far inferior competition.


What would you have the NCAA do? Make the power conference schools spend money to travel far away and play mid-major teams? Because everybody already plays mid-major teams, they just play the teams close by.

I just don't see scheduling as an issue. You guys schedule just fine, even getting a large number of home games despite being in a mid-major conference and playing in a cold-weather climate. In basketball the mid-major argument has some validity, I just don't think it does in baseball.

[shockfan89_]

Not at all. I am just pointing out why the RPI should be less of a factor. If we can't play and win our mid week games we have no chance at an at-large bid. OSU and Baylor proved you are better off playing in the Big 12 and losing most of your games due to RPI considerations. Teams like WSU and ORU can't possibly do that because of conference affiliation.

I would much rather see a 2nd place team in a weaker conference that finished strong and played a decent out of conference schedule get into a regional than a Big 12 or SEC team that lost 8 or their last 10 and/or finished 8th or 9th in their conference.

I think the only thing that needs to be done is remove people's conference bias and select teams that deserve to be in. Maybe the people on the selection teams should rotate every few years and include all ADs (from every school that plays baseball) so you might have only 1 or 2 ADs from the SEC, ACC, Big 12 every year and they could be kept in check by the others. In other words if there are 302 D1 baseball programs and 50 teams come from the "power" conferences only 1/6 of the committee should be from the "power" conferences and the other 5/6 would be from other schools. I think that right there would solve the problem although as someone mentioned the SEC and ACC didn't even have a representative this year. Does that explain how the Big 12 got 8 teams in???

[CharlieHog]

I would much rather see a 2nd place team in a weaker conference that finished strong and played a decent out of conference schedule get into a regional than a Big 12 or SEC team that lost 8 or their last 10 and/or finished 8th or 9th in their conference.

For the record I do pretty much agree with this, even though my own team has been that 8th or 9th team in the past and gotten into the tournament. In fact in 2002 when Arkansas won the Wichita regional as a 3 seed we were a bubble team. We barely made the SEC Tournament that year. I can't remember if we were 7th or 8th in the conference. I'm definitely glad we got in though because that was an awesome regional and we ended up 1 out away from Omaha.

I don't think teams should be rewarded for losing to good teams. I think who you beat is more important than who beat you. (I also think this is true of basketball.)

Arkansas got in last year as the 9th SEC team. I would not have complained at all if we had been left out. But ORU gets in every year because they are the only good team in a joke of a conference, and they don't feel bad about their regionals so I'm not going to feel bad about our current 8 year streak, even if last year was a bit of a gift.

And, I do think Missouri State earned a bid and should have been in over OSU or Baylor.

As a college baseball FAN I would rather see a 2nd team from a conference like the MVC (not a crappy conference like the Summit or A10) than a 8th Big 12 or 9th SEC team.

[billybud]

But the question of.."who derserves to be in" is answered differently, based on your view.

The best 64? Or a "fair" representation from all conferences?

Marist will play this weekend. Marist has an RPI of freekin' 177.

Marist had 33 games with teams that had an RPI greater than 200..YOW. Only two games with a team with an RPI in the top 100..and they lost both to George Mason.

Duke is not going. Duke was in the ACC Championship game but didn't make the at large cut because their RPI was 74. Duke had 13 wins over teams with an RPI in the final top 50. Very few teams can make that claim. Rhode Island may have a better claim than Duke.

What we have is mush...a cross between trying to put up the "best" 64 and the desire to be "representative". Neither wish is really satisfied.

[ShockerFever]

But the question of.."who derserves to be in" is answered differently, based on your view.

The best 64? Or a "fair" representation from all conferences?

Marist will play this weekend. Marist has an RPI of freekin' 177.

Marist had 33 games with teams that had an RPI greater than 200..YOW. Only two games with a team with an RPI in the top 100..and they lost both to George Mason.

Duke is not going. Duke was in the ACC Championship game but didn't make the at large cut because their RPI was 74. Duke had 13 wins over teams with an RPI in the final top 50. Very few teams can make that claim. Rhode Island may have a better claim than Duke.

What we have is mush...a cross between trying to put up the "best" 64 and the desire to be "representative". Neither wish is really satisfied.

You're showing your ignorance again billy.

Look at what freaking part of the country Marist is in. How the HELL do you think they're gonna be able to schedule good RPI teams? Are they supposed to waste their entire athletic budget flying out all over the south every year to help their RPI?

Marist is in the Northeast Conference I think. Can they help the fact that their conference isn't the juggernaut of a conference that the ACC is? (Still waiting for that first CWS title from an ACC school btw..) You think you should just reward Duke because they get more opportunities to play higher RPI teams and win about half of em?

There's no arguing the best 64. It's about the best 34 (or how many at-large teams there are in baseball). Automatic bids will NEVER be eliminated from this, as it shouldn't. This process should be like our democratic government... Taxation with Representation. Everyone should be represented (the Senate) with the best at-larges (the House) making up half of that.

Are you related to William by any chance?

[billybud]

LOL...OK...So you think Marist will be in a Super or make it to Omaha?

I disagree about automatic bids...just my viewpoint. Give me the best of the 64 that you can.

Rhode Island is in the North East. They made an effort...they played NC State, Ohio State, Miami, Cal State Fullerton, OK State, Boston Colllege.

yeah, marist is small, have no money...but I'd rather not have charity teams who have not done much to deserve going to a regional. I would like the best 64...And forget conferences.

[shockfan89_]

Billy - I think you are making the same point. I would rather see those teams in a regional than 8 teams from the same conference. I want the best 64 in but we disagree on the best 64. Most years I think only 5 teams from the ACC, SEC, and Big 12 deserve bids. There have been years that I would have stretched that but for the most part teams under that only claim to be deserving because they have a good RPI and the only reason they have a good RPI is because they lost a lot of games to top ranked conference teams.

I don't think you can argue about a teams chance to win. How many regional bids and national seeds has the ACC received over the past 10 or 20 years and how many times have they won a CWS title?