messed up format

[Ta town]

The cross over game hoses this format. I know its probably a money issue to only have 6 teams but invite all 8 teams next year. Have two pools, pods, groups, divisions (whatever you want to call it). Play 3 against your pod, winner of each pod in championship. No friging cross over games, those things are weird.

[SB Shock]

WSU fans should write the AD and MVC commish and tell him that the MVC needs to fix the format or they won't attend next year. Let the MVC find another host for this charade.

[Shocker85]

My comments here: http://www.shockernet.net/sn/viewtop...=265789#265789

[Ta town]

ya sorry about that, didn't really think about the MVC torney post when I started this one.

[Veritas]

WSU fans should write the AD and MVC commish and tell him that the MVC needs to fix the format or they won't attend next year. Let the MVC find another host for this charade.

SB, with all due respect, are you serious?
Hosting the tournament gives Shocker fans a great few days of watching Valley baseball, and gives WSU the homefield advantage. Why would we want to throw that away to prove our unhappiness with a format that will probably be tweaked anyway?

[SpanglerFan316]

WSU fans should write the AD and MVC commish and tell him that the MVC needs to fix the format or they won't attend next year. Let the MVC find another host for this charade.

SB, with all due respect, are you serious?
Hosting the tournament gives Shocker fans a great few days of watching Valley baseball, and gives WSU the homefield advantage. Why would we want to throw that away to prove our unhappiness with a format that will probably be tweaked anyway?

Agreed!!!

[ShockerFever]

Guess who came up with the pod play format? A sCUm radio personality and Eddddddddd.

Not surprising that it SUCKS. Too many meaningless games. Too hard for casual fans to understand. Too retarded.

Go back to the regular 6-team format. I'd even be ok with a 4-team regular format.

About 8 teams? No. Then everybody makes it and it makes the regular season worthless.

[1972Shocker]

Just about anything would be better than this format. Surely someone looked at the various possibilities with this format and new that meaningless games were a definite possibility.

Personally, I like the 4-team double elimiantion format best because it makes the regular season more significant and with MVC baseball you generally don't want your league represented in the NCAA with anyone finishing worse than 4th in this league.

[SB Shock]

WSU fans should write the AD and MVC commish and tell him that the MVC needs to fix the format or they won't attend next year. Let the MVC find another host for this charade.

SB, with all due respect, are you serious?

Yes I am. This format sucks. It is a dog and it is no fun. Under the old format I would take the 3 days off and go to every game. It was fun because every game meant something and you didn't know when you might play. Last two years - there has been no reason to.

Hosting the tournament gives Shocker fans a great few days of watching Valley baseball,

What is so fun about watching WSU playing a game where the coaches didn't even try to win. What is so fun about watching a game where the players dis-respected and embarrassed themselves and the program.

I bet the 11 am game was a beauty today.

and gives WSU the homefield advantage. Why would we want to throw that away to prove our unhappiness with a format that will probably be tweaked anyway?

The perception that WSU gets some kind huge advantage by hosting the tournament is not bared out by the facts. WSU is 13-9 when hosting the tournament (most likely 13-10 after this year), 3-5 when not hosting.

This format can not be tweaked. And you actually think that the MVC cares about baseball. They don't.

They have three choices:

1. Play pod format with 8 teams the way it was intended.
2. Play a 4 team regional format
3. Go back to the 6 team regional tournament format.

[Veritas]

WSU fans should write the AD and MVC commish and tell him that the MVC needs to fix the format or they won't attend next year. Let the MVC find another host for this charade.

SB, with all due respect, are you serious?

Yes I am. This format sucks. It is a dog and it is no fun. Under the old format I would take the 3 days off and go to every game. It was fun because every game meant something and you didn't know when you might play. Last two years - there has been no reason to.

Hosting the tournament gives Shocker fans a great few days of watching Valley baseball,

What is so fun about watching WSU playing a game where the coaches didn't even try to win. What is so fun about watching a game where the players dis-respected and embarrassed themselves and the program.

I bet the 11 am game was a beauty today.

and gives WSU the homefield advantage. Why would we want to throw that away to prove our unhappiness with a format that will probably be tweaked anyway?

The perception that WSU gets some kind huge advantage by hosting the tournament is not bared out by the facts. WSU is 13-9 when hosting the tournament (most likely 13-10 after this year), 3-5 when not hosting.

This format can not be tweaked. And you actually think that the MVC cares about baseball. They don't.

They have three choices:

1. Play pod format with 8 teams the way it was intended.
2. Play a 4 team regional format
3. Go back to the 6 team regional tournament format.

SB, I agree that the format is not very good. However, you not wanting the Shox to host the tournament simply doesn't make sense to me.
The Shocker AD should use our tournament hosting experience, great attendance, and use that leverage to change the format; not change locations.

[ShockerFever]

I know why SB said what he said.

Thankfully, it doesn't look like the tourney will be away from Wichita anytime soon. After the announcement that the Eck has been chosen in 2010, it appears the great Hammons Field has settled back down in the Valley pecking order.

[WSUwatcher]

Huh?

"Bared out by the facts"? What is this, the Maxim Invitational?

Seriously, using SB's numbers, 13-9 (.591) is a lot better than 3-5 (.375) -- as in 58% better. Now it's true there have been many years where the Shocks were a lock for an at-large spot, but with that being less the case nowadays, why would anyone blow off that kind of an advantage?

The crossover games are certainly a flaw in the format, but I'm disappointed the coaches have talked up the "meaningless" aspect so much. Obviously they're most likely to be -- emphasis on likely, because they won't always be -- irrelevant to the outcome of the tournament. But if getting into the NCAA tournamanet is the only thing that makes college baseball meaningful, then why do schools like Bradley, SIU or Illinois State, and in most cases Evansville and Indiana State, even field a team in the first place? How often are they realistic NCAA contenders?

Games are meaningful for their own sake -- that what sport is all about. Clearly the Valley needs to change the format so it's less likely that anyone would feel the need lea to stack their pitching the way the teams have this year. Otherwise, the league is creating a perverse incentive, and there's no need for that.

Personally, I'd favor the four-team double-elimination (i.e., NCAA regional) format if the leagues wants to save travel costs, although I really think the eight-team pool play event without crossover games is a better format.

[ShockerFever]

So allow everybody in?

Then what's the point of the regular season again?



You know it's a bad format when a losing team ends their tournament with a win.. i.e. SIU today..

[WSUwatcher]

Formats

Actually, I'm not a big fan of conference tournaments in general, Fever -- but if they're going to have one, it isn't clear to me why it's any worse to allow all the baseball teams in than it is to allow all the basketball teams in, which is pretty much the universal practice.

Your question about devaluing the regular season is equally as applicable to basketball. The difference between the two sports is just that baseball, because of the critical importance of pitching, doesn't lend itself to single-elimination play (and some would argue that even double elimination is less than ideal, too), whereas basketball works fine that way.

[WSUwatcher]

Regular season

One other point about an eight team format with pool play, Fever, is that it defintely does not totally devalue the regular season.

For example, in the Big 12 tournament, where if Texas hangs on to beat K-State those two teams and Baylor will all finish 2-1 (with KU 0-3, by the way), the tie will be broken by seeding just as would have happened in the Valley had a comparable situation arisen. Regular season champ and #1 seed Texas would then play for the championship, as they earned the right to do with their season-long performance.

Obviously, K-State will be in the tournament regardless of what happens, and probably a high seed, so missing the championship game is no biggie. But in a league like this year's Valley, where the tournament is a team's one shot at the NCAA, the application of this tiebreaker would be huge -- so the value of regular season performance would definitely not be wasted.