Can Shox move to the Big XII

[SB Shock]

I have a question - why hasn't all these football supporters created some type "football trust fund" to show how serious they are?

I would think if the supporters of football starting making big donations/writing big checks to this fund and the public support started building, then university wouldn't be able to stop it.

Of course the Catch-22 is only a few shockernetters write $20 checks and fable that is "football" might once and for all be banished.

[Veritas]

SB, IMO it is a shame that the ADs of WSU have not done a better job of tapping into the corporate and private donors of WSU in a attempt to bring back football. Granted, they have done a pretty good job in upgrading facilities and ensuring our teams are competitive in the MoValley. I want more.

My graduate university has sent me probably 5 requests for donations this year, and I've given to every single request. WSU from which I have an undergraduate degree has sent me one. ONE! If I want to give to WSU, I need to go to "goshockers" or even "shockernet" to find out what's going on. It's a shame. I have to hunt them down to give them money.

Will the metro population of Wichita, students, and graduates rally around a premier university? Absolutely! Is football necessary to get us off of the road to becoming a "commuter school"? Absolutely! I remember U of L (Louisville) being in the Valley. Their new football stadium is awesome - funded in part by Papa Johns (who I believe is partially owned by one of the original founders of Pizza Hut who is a graduate of WSU).

Until then, I raise the request again, to get us out of the MoValley in baseball and make a formal request to join the Big XII for baseball only. Next step is to use that as a stepping stone, and renovate Cessna Stadium, and bring back football. Every journey begins with one step. We need to take that step. Now!!!

[shockmonster]

It seems obvious to me that the "big donors" are not behind having football. They (some) are either not pushing it or they may even be blocking it.

[vbird53]

It seems obvious to me that the "big donors" are not behind having football. They (some) are either not pushing it or they may even be blocking it.

That's why it's up to the AD and Prez to change the culture.

[SubGod22]

Those big donors also weren't behind basketball and the renovations until the AD and company stepped up with a plan that they could follow and see and believe in. That's what needs to be done for football as well. The money is out there and so is the fan support.

[SpanglerFan316]

Those big donors also weren't behind basketball and the renovations until the AD and company stepped up with a plan that they could follow and see and believe in. That's what needs to be done for football as well. The money is out there and so is the fan support.

Charles Koch only gave something like $8M for the Arena renovation. Basketball had some history as a successful program. Football has essentially no history. In order to bring back football, you need to raise an initial $100M. Do that and I'll jump on the bandwagon. :D

[SubGod22]

Where did the initial start up of 100M start? I always see it used by those opposed to football being brought back and lower numbers by those that do. I suspect it's actually somewhere in the middle. The money is or will be there if we want football. You can take a look at all the smaller schools starting football over the next few years and see it's very possible. I can't believe that they have that many more resources than we do.

[SHOCKvalue]

Those big donors also weren't behind basketball and the renovations until the AD and company stepped up with a plan that they could follow and see and believe in. That's what needs to be done for football as well. The money is out there and so is the fan support.

Charles Koch only gave something like $8M for the Arena renovation. Basketball had some history as a successful program. Football has essentially no history. In order to bring back football, you need to raise an initial $100M. Do that and I'll jump on the bandwagon. :D

You know, I'm not singling you out Spangler because many are guilty, but where does this $100M figure come from that I see thrown out in football discussions on the board. Is there a media source, or some sort of prospectus that stated such?

I realize that to restart football A LOT of money will need to be allocated or raised, but $100M sounds silly. We could probably upgrade Cessna stadium into a larger version of what Okie State is currently building for less than $100M, and throw the remainder into investments to cover losses, charters, etc.

If the $100M is for use as an endowment, and yearly earnings used to subsidize the program, then I could maybe fathom the figure.

One thing is for sure, last I checked we had the LARGEST AD budget in the MVC, but somehow we can't afford football when MSU, SIU, and UNI can? Just doesn't hold water.

EDIT: Slow work postings left me behind subs mad typing skills.

[SHOCKvalue]

WSU's AD expenses without football were $15.7M in 2007.

Here's some schools who compete at the BCS level in football with similar overall budgets:

Louisiana Tech- $12.4M
Southern Miss- $15.2M
Ball State- $15.5M
Bowling Green- $15.6M
North Texas- $15.8M
Northern Illinois- $16.4M
Toledo- $16.9M
Akron- $17.4M
Colorado State- $18.5M
Ohio- $18.6M
Marshall- $18.9M
Tulane- $19.1M
New Mexico State- $19.4M
UTEP- $20.6M
Wyoming- $21M
Boise State $21.7M

http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-budget

You don't happen to hear about any of these schools during bowl season, by chance, do you? The list goes on, and on, and on. One in three schools in our basic realm on the list in that link play BCS football. Just a basic football program would probably push our budget up to the $20M level, so that's why I went that high. Interest earned on a "safe" investment of $100M would push us to $22-24M in annual AD budget. More than what a SOLID program such as Boise State spends.

In some ways, it seems like we do less with more, with all due respect to Gene, Greg, and Schaus.

EDIT: I was wrong we don't have the largest AD budget in the MVC, that'd be SIU at $17.5M

[SpanglerFan316]

Ricky Bobby: Have you look at the amount of money being spent by universities simply to renovate their (sometimes already good) football stadiums? Have you look at football coaching salaries? Have you computed expected ticket revenue vs. expected costs?

http://uwfootball.blogspot.com/2008/02/stadium-race.html

U. Washington $350 million
U. Minnesota $288 million
Central Florida $55 million
U. Michigan $288 million
Rutgers $102 million
Akron $55 million
U. Maryland $50.8 million
Texas Tech $45 million
Boise State $35.9 million
Washington State $70 million
Arizona State between $52 million and $150 million
Florida International $50 million

[SHOCKvalue]

Ricky Bobby: Have you look at the amount of money being spent by universities simply to renovate their (sometimes already good) football stadiums?

I can't say I understand the correlation between a potential clean-up and upgrade of Cessna, to brand new, $200M, 80K seat facilities from some of the largest schools in the US.

When K-State added the east side upgrade in 1998 it cost them $13M. Have you seen how large of an upgrade that was for $13M? I understand construction cost have gone up, but you could still build the thing today for less than $18M. That's not chump change by any means, but it is context for the argument of what can be done for what cost.

Have you look at football coaching salaries?

If you throw out statistical outliers, football coach money today is very similar to basketball coach money. We spend roughly the same for Greg Marshall as K-State does for Ron Prince, in fact we spend a little more IIRC. Not that Prince is a fantastic example, but it is one nonetheless.

Have you computed expected ticket revenue vs. expected costs?

We certainly could be in the red when it comes to football, but at what point do you, as a university, make a collective decision to lead your school on a better track for the future. Football is becoming a feast or famine issue. Either we continue to exclude it, save some money, and in 20 years we're a hair away from being DII with a 100% reputation as a non-traditional, commuter school with no valuable identity. Or we include it and position ourselves in a stronger situation for further conference re-alignments, enrollment expectations, and a student body that is more traditional. It comes down to what dollar value do you place on yearly loses to improve your school as a whole for the long-term.

None of this changes my personal opinion that we seem to be spending the same amount of money to play MVC sports with no football, as many other schools are spending to play MVC-level or better sports as well as BCS football.

[Veritas]

Absolutely it costs money to bring back football. It makes one wonder however, if the Kansas Board of Regents chooses a University President for WSU that articulates their lack of interest of bringing back football in contrast to one that is aggressive in fund raising and has a drive and vision for football to return.
Before the current KU AD (Perkins) pulled the plug on WSU football, was it ever discussed with the alum, city, corporations, etc... Heck no, we didn't like a half-a$$ football team and demanded better. But as I recall, the last few years of WSU football life, they beat Oklahoma State and Kansas, and were planning on having a home game against KSU the very next year. There were a lot of ups and downs with the football program.

A lot of schools have done more with less than WSU. The demise of WSU football is a stain on the Kansas Board of Regents, the "leaders" of Wichita as a city, and numerous ADs who did not have a bigger vision.

Here's hoping the our new AD Sexton gets football back on the front burner. Until that happens, let's get WSU in the Big XII for baseball.

Go Shox!

[Shox32]

...let's get WSU in the Big XII for baseball.

As long as there are an even number of teams in the B12 playing baseball (and there are 10), it will never happen or even be considered. When Iowa State still had baseball (making 11) was when it was more viable for the Shox to consider that option, although the MVC would have strongly balked.

[Indy23]

Ricky Bobby: Have you look at the amount of money being spent by universities simply to renovate their (sometimes already good) football stadiums? Have you look at football coaching salaries? Have you computed expected ticket revenue vs. expected costs?

http://uwfootball.blogspot.com/2008/02/stadium-race.html

U. Washington $350 million
U. Minnesota $288 million
Central Florida $55 million
U. Michigan $288 million
Rutgers $102 million
Akron $55 million
U. Maryland $50.8 million
Texas Tech $45 million
Boise State $35.9 million
Washington State $70 million
Arizona State between $52 million and $150 million
Florida International $50 million

Success in football requires more money than ever should be necessary. Just look at what T Boner is giving Okie State. It's rediculous.

Good luck, but I'm sorry to admit that KU and KSU ADs would certainly be opposed to WSU reestablishing it's football program. However, if Tulsa can do it ...

And, if WSU were to get football going again, the JuCo system is strong enough in Kansas that WSU could have a good enough team to beat the Missouri State's of the Gateway Conference within a few years.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Ricky Bobby: Have you look at the amount of money being spent by universities simply to renovate their (sometimes already good) football stadiums? Have you look at football coaching salaries? Have you computed expected ticket revenue vs. expected costs?

http://uwfootball.blogspot.com/2008/02/stadium-race.html

U. Washington $350 million
U. Minnesota $288 million
Central Florida $55 million
U. Michigan $288 million
Rutgers $102 million
Akron $55 million
U. Maryland $50.8 million
Texas Tech $45 million
Boise State $35.9 million
Washington State $70 million
Arizona State between $52 million and $150 million
Florida International $50 million

Success in football requires more money than ever should be necessary. Just look at what T Boner is giving Okie State. It's rediculous.

Good luck, but I'm sorry to admit that KU and KSU ADs would certainly be opposed to WSU reestablishing it's football program. However, if Tulsa can do it ...

And, if WSU were to get football going again, the JuCo system is strong enough in Kansas that WSU could have a good enough team to beat the Missouri State's of the Gateway Conference within a few years.

Its the actually the Missouri Valley Football Conference now.

But I agree with your point(s).