Jordan Cooper

[lostshocker]

MLB would rather almost all position prospects start with wood at 18 and would love to keep every projectable arm out of the system of abuse that is 95% of college baseball.

one would hope that that system of abuse would go almost completely away (if hs players were removed from the draft). the overuse of pitchers in the college ranks is one of the biggest negatives in college baseball.

Why would it go away? What new motivator would there be for college coaches to take care of arms that doesn't exist today?

base my hope on a theoretically larger talent pool. i personally wish there were more rules governing the use of pitchers in the college ranks. but i dont believe you could actually create usable ones.

[shockandawe08]

For what it's worth, I still think there's something to be said for maturity and being a well-rounded person. A high school student is still, on average, quoting their parents' beliefs (of course, that's not always a BAD thing)). It's not until the sophomore year of college that many come into their own as more fully-developed individuals. There have been studies done. Why subject a high schooler to the world of major league baseball unless he has the coping skills he needs? Too many burn out early or turn to drugs, etc. When the bar is set too high, there's only one direction left to go. I'm just sayin'.....
I mean, if we're going to care about these young men, let's REALLY care about them.

[SpanglerFan316]

Going pro out of high school is better for some and going to college is better for others. It's completely dependent on the individual, their talent level, their maturity level, the physics of their body, the team they got drafted by, etc.

For us to presume to know what's better for any one of these guys is silly.

I agree to some extent. If these young men know all the facts (e.g. the probability of making the majors) and decide to sign, more power to them. The few people I know who signed out of high school were not "fully informed" and now regret their signing. (If they had become MLB stars, they would probably not have regrets.)

[7hottamales]

The guy I was talking to on Friday, watching the first FSU-WSU game with me, signed right out of high school, only got as far as single A ball and has regretted not playing in college ever since.

Do you mind me asking what round he got drafted in?

[SpanglerFan316]

The guy I was talking to on Friday, watching the first FSU-WSU game with me, signed right out of high school, only got as far as single A ball and has regretted not playing in college ever since.

Do you mind me asking what round he got drafted in?

Good question. I don't know but I'll ask when I next see him. He is around 40 now so this was a long time ago. He went on to college (paid for by himself), earned a BS (in Missouri or Washington) and a masters at WSU, worked in Seattle in high tech and has returned to WSU for another degree.

[haysdb]

[quote="7hottamales"]

I think the MLB needs to change the draft. The first thing that needs to happen is it needs to be pushed back to after the CWS. They can chill out for two weeks. I hate to say it, but they also need to stop drafting high school kids. The NBA doesn't do it anymore, the NFL doesn't do it, and it shouldn't be done with the MLB either.

What on earth does MLB have to gain from that?

I did not write that.

[7hottamales]

[quote="haysdb"]

I think the MLB needs to change the draft. The first thing that needs to happen is it needs to be pushed back to after the CWS. They can chill out for two weeks. I hate to say it, but they also need to stop drafting high school kids. The NBA doesn't do it anymore, the NFL doesn't do it, and it shouldn't be done with the MLB either.

What on earth does MLB have to gain from that?

I did not write that.

I know...Rosewood did. It got a little funky when I tried to quote him

[shockfan89]

[quote="7hottamales"]

I think the MLB needs to change the draft. The first thing that needs to happen is it needs to be pushed back to after the CWS. They can chill out for two weeks. I hate to say it, but they also need to stop drafting high school kids. The NBA doesn't do it anymore, the NFL doesn't do it, and it shouldn't be done with the MLB either.

What on earth does MLB have to gain from that?

MLB could save a TON of money by dropping everything under AA and using college as their minor leagues. Very few guys that skip college ever make it in the big leagues. I can't remember any WSU signees that skipped school that have actually played in the MLB. Can anyone name one?

What about that kid that was supposed to be as good or better than Pelfrey that was in the same recruiting class? Wasn't he done playing pro ball before Pelfrey signed his $5 million deal?

[7hottamales]

[quote="shockfan89"]

I think the MLB needs to change the draft. The first thing that needs to happen is it needs to be pushed back to after the CWS. They can chill out for two weeks. I hate to say it, but they also need to stop drafting high school kids. The NBA doesn't do it anymore, the NFL doesn't do it, and it shouldn't be done with the MLB either.

What on earth does MLB have to gain from that?

MLB could save a TON of money by dropping everything under AA and using college as their minor leagues. Very few guys that skip college ever make it in the big leagues. I can't remember any WSU signees that skipped school that have actually played in the MLB. Can anyone name one?

What about that kid that was supposed to be as good or better than Pelfrey that was in the same recruiting class? Wasn't he done playing pro ball before Pelfrey signed his $5 million deal?

Blair Johnson finally seems to be somewhat healthy again. We'll see what happens. Of course if he would have went to Nebraska and had the same arm issues, he would have been out a ton of money...oh wait, you're referring to Kendall Bergdall(?)...I believe he had arm issues too.

Kozma is highly likely be one. David Sanders is another. One could argue that Nate Cornejo would have been a no brainer to WSU if he wasn't the top arm in his high school class from 14 on. I feel like I'm forgetting one or two more. The problem with that question is that most of the high profile guys I can think of that WSU wasn't able to get on campus were position players and it's not like very many of WSU's position players have made it the last 15 years. WSU does a good job of selling it's projectable high school arms (rightfully so) that they have a ton to benefit from spending 3 years under Kemnitz. He definitely transforms most every drop of upside to reality.

Saying very few guys that skip college ever make it to the big leagues is truly not that meaningful of a statement. Very few guys that go to college ever make it to the big leagues...In fact, the list of WSU drafted players linked earlier today is an indictment of that fact....those were the best of the best at WSU and very, very few have done much at the pro level.

It's a very difficult path to forge. Few players make it and actually have a lasting impactful career....whether it's high school drafts, college players, or foreign FA signs.

I can guarantee you that all major league teams would prefer to have the control over the development of talent rather than let 95%+ of the college staffs do it. Being able to defer and eliminate some age risk is truly the main reason why they allow some identified talent to pitch to or use aluminum and be subjected to abuse by college staffs.

A high percentage of guys are going to flame out or break down regardless of the route they take between the ages of 18 to 21. Also a high percentage of the true "talents" will develop late between the ages of 18-21. Therefore there will always be a role for both paths to fill. I predict that the draft in 2018 will have a very similar breakdown between high school and college talent.

Finally, I would argue that it would be much more expensive for major league baseball to subsidize college baseball to the extent necessary to use it as A ball than it is to operate under the current system. Not even close.

[shockfan89]

oh wait, you're referring to Kendall Bergdall(?)...I believe he had arm issues too.

That was the one I was thinking of. Kris Johnson had arm problems in college and still ended up drafted in the 1st round. I think Kendall is done playing right?

The point is I think most players are better off going to college rather than spending 3 years in A ball. I think most of the guys that sign out of high school have always had the dream of being drafted and are looking at the short term rather than being confident in their abilities. Every year the money goes up, so every year you "put off" being drafted you will make more money. Given that you hold steady or improve your draft round.

And for those of you saying the round you are drafted in doesn't matter, you are crazy! It doesn't mean you can't negoiate, but anyone drafted after the 20th round is negotiating for $100 gas card (that was a good one Royal).

Finally, I would argue that it would be much more expensive for major league baseball to subsidize college baseball to the extent necessary to use it as A ball than it is to operate under the current system. Not even close.

Please explain. I think MLB spends exactly $0 on college baseball. How is that cheaper than the millions and millions they spend every year on A ball?

[shockmonster]

Not everyone is right for college academically or do they want to go to college. I understood that Cornejo was in that category.

[7hottamales]

Not everyone is right for college academically or do they want to go to college. I understood that Cornejo was in that category.

Nor can everyone afford college baseball. College baseball is a middle to upper class sport for the most part. That's hardly representative of professional sports.

[shockfan89]

Not everyone is right for college academically or do they want to go to college. I understood that Cornejo was in that category.

Nor can everyone afford college baseball. College baseball is a middle to upper class sport for the most part. That's hardly representative of professional sports.

Good points! That 11.7 doesn't actually pay much when you have 35 guys sharing it.

[7hottamales]

Please explain. I think MLB spends exactly $0 on college baseball. How is that cheaper than the millions and millions they spend every year on A ball?

Remember the question is why would MLB have any interest in doing what Rosewood was proposing...

Your suggestion was for Pro baseball to eliminate A leagues to save money...in order for college baseball to be a comparative substitute for development purposes, it would need a tremendous upgrade in quality of coaching, quality of facilities, funding for scholarships (both men's and women's), and switch to wood bats. For example, there's no way the Devil Rays would want any part of Beckham using aluminum and facing pitchers like Bradley's half the time for the next 2 years. The quality of all those components and competition is so ridiculously different. It's just not a feasible substitute for A ball development.

[shockfan89]

Got it. I was thinking more along the lines of cutting the draft back to 20 or 25 rounds and just eliminating everything under AA. Let players go to college for 3 years and get a little better picture of who can play against higher quality competition.

Hopefully Mr. Cooper can be someone we can point to 3 years from now and say here is another example of why you should go to college! :D